[Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2

Fri Sep 2 12:46:31 PDT 2011

That works for me. So if summary is null  or an empty string then an AT
should look to the describedby relationship.

So, what will you do with caption? Will you deprecate it?

Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group

From:	Pete Brunet <pete at a11ysoft.com>
To:	IAccessible2 mailing list
            <accessibility-ia2 at lists.linux-foundation.org>
Date:	09/02/2011 02:29 PM
Subject:	Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
Sent by:	accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org

Are there any objections to the following?

Deprecate IATable2::summary and caption, adding the following notes:

summary:  If the summary is a simple string return it via MSAA's
get_accDescription.  If the summary consists of a hierarchy of objects
provide an IA2_RELATION_DESCRIBED_BY relation.
caption:  Provide an IA2_RELATION_LABELED_BY relation.

Pete
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Pete Brunet

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
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On 8/30/2011 1:30 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:

      Hi Alex,

      Summary is the equivalent of a text description that can be mapped to
      accDescription. The summary is not visible to sighted users. So, it
      behaves the same way as a hidden aria-descibedby. We should start
      being consistent in the way that we provide information.

      Captions are visible labels that have an object associated with them
      and a label relation should be used.

      We could apply a role of caption to the caption label if we had one.
      I see no need for additional methods in IAccessible2Table2.

      Rich

      Rich Schwerdtfeger
      CTO Accessibility Software Group

      Inactive hide details for Alexander Surkov ---08/30/2011
      01:22:56 PM---When I started this thread I assumed that
      summary and caAlexander Surkov ---08/30/2011 01:22:56 PM---When I
      started this thread I assumed that summary and caption are
      semantically different than name (

      From: Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander at gmail.com>
      To: pete at a11ysoft.com
      Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list
      <accessibility-ia2 at lists.linux-foundation.org>
      Date: 08/30/2011 01:22 PM
      Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
      Sent by: accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org

      When I started this thread I assumed that summary and caption are
      semantically different than name (label relation) and description
      (description relation) and AT wants to have an access to them. If
      this
      makes sense then we should go with VARIANT approach, otherwise
      summary
      and caption should be deprecated. Do we have any use cases from AT
      perspective?

      Thank you.
      Alex.

      On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Pete Brunet <pete at a11ysoft.com>
      wrote:
      > I've been discussing this with Rich: rather than creating IATable3
      and
      > having summary return a VARIANT which could then return either a
      BSTR
      > (for HTML) or an object (for other non-browser implementations), a
      > solution with less impact would be to deprecate summary and add a
      > comment that describedBy should be used when the description is
      provided
      > by an object (or tree of objects) or accDescription otherwise.
      That
      > seems acceptable for non-browser implementations as well.  What do
      you
      > think?
      >
      > Pete
      >
      > On 8/23/2011 8:50 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
      >> For the 1.3 release, let me know if anyone is opposed to creating
      >> IATable3 with summary and caption changed to return a VARIANT
      instead of
      >> an IUnknown.
      >>
      >> On 8/22/2011 9:48 AM, Brett Lewis wrote:
      >>> Hi,
      >>> What prompted this thread for me is my trying to obtain caption
      and
      >>> summary via the IAccessibleTable interface.
      >>> By convention using name and description is fine but doesn't
      really seem
      >>> to correctly implement IAccessibleTable and is only somewhat
      intuitive.
      >>> I like the idea of having the get_summary and get_Caption return
      a
      >>> variant with either the text or the IAccessible.
      >>> Brett
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> -----Original Message-----
      >>> From: Alexander Surkov [mailto:surkov.alexander at gmail.com]
      >>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 8:58 PM
      >>> To: James Teh
      >>> Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list; Brett Lewis
      >>> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to
      IA2
      >>>
      >>> Hi, Jamie. It appears AT want to get summary and caption (not a
      name or
      >>> description since they can be different).
      >>>
      >>> Brett, do you have scenarios to share?
      >>>
      >>> Thank you.
      >>> Alex.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:42 PM, James Teh <jamie at nvaccess.org>
      wrote:
      >>>> Hi Alex,
      >>>>
      >>>> Why are accName/accDescription insufficient?
      >>>>
      >>>> Thanks,
      >>>> Jamie
      >>>>
      >>>> On 9/08/2011 1:36 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
      >>>>> Hi.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> IATable2 provides caption and summary properties that return
      >>>>> accessible objects. HTML table summary is provided by @summary
      >>>>> attribute so there's no accessible object that's created from
      DOM
      >>>>> element. This can be workarounded by artificial accessible
      object
      >>>>> creation that is attached or not attached to the tree but this
      >>>>> complicates implementation and I would try to avoid it. Can we
      extend
      >>>>> the IAccessibleTable2 by summaryText and captionText attributes
      or
      >>>>> introduce summary and caption object attributes on table
      accessible
      >>>>> if interface change is not desired for this?
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Thank you.
      >>>>> Alexander.

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