<div dir="ltr">What retail needs is escrowed microchannel hubs (what lightning provides, for example), which enable untrusted instant payments. Not reliance on single-signer zeroconf transactions that can never be made safe.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Andreas Petersson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andreas@petersson.at" target="_blank">andreas@petersson.at</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I have some experience here. If you are seriously suggesting these<br>
measures, you might as well kill retail transactions altogether.<br>
<br>
In practice, if a retail place starts to accept bitcoin they have a<br>
similar situation as with cash, only that the fraud potential is much<br>
lower. (e.g. 100-dollar bill for a sandwich might turn out fake later)<br>
and the fraud frequency is also much lower.<br>
<br>
0-conf concerns were never a problem in practice. except for 2-way atms<br>
i have never heard of a problem that was caused by double spends.<br>
while adding these measures is generally positive, requiring them means<br>
excluding 99.9% of the potential users. so you might as well not do it.<br>
<br>
RBF as implemented by F2Pool just flat out lowers Bitcoins utility<br>
value. So it's a bad thing.<br>
<br>
for any online or automated system, waiting for a handful of<br>
confirmations was always recommended practice.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
Am 19.06.2015 um 22:39 schrieb Matt Whitlock:<br>
> Retail POS merchants probably should not be accepting vanilla Bitcoin<br>
> payments, as Bitcoin alone does not (and cannot) guarantee the<br>
> irreversibility of a transaction until it has been buried several<br>
> blocks deep in the chain. Retail merchants should be requiring a<br>
> co-signature from a mutually trusted co-signer that vows never to sign<br>
> a double-spend.<br>
<br>
</div></div><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>