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<DIV><FONT face=Helvetica><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> When a category of
users would get priced out because of the fee market, they would be free to use
any altcoin they want.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Helvetica></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Helvetica>I believe that pretty well sums up where we’re
headed if transaction rate is artificially limited, whether that be by maximum
block size limit or something else. A fee market will necessarily include
more than just Bitcoin. The reality is it’s very easy to trade value
across different blockchains, and thus a fee market will bleed value from
Bitcoin and give it to alternative blockchains. If Bitcoin’s blocks are at
maximum capacity, people will exchange for something that allows them to
transact with a lesser fee, then make the desired payment. This adds value
to the alternative blockchain and removes it from Bitcoin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Helvetica></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Helvetica>Anyone thinking the fee market can be
restrained to Bitcoin alone is mistaken.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">Vali Zero via
bitcoin-dev</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:09 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [bitcoin-dev] Răspuns: Personal opinion on the fee market
from a worried local trader</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_15868><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>I am disappointed that you did not understand my point of view. Let me
rephrase it for you,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>People tipping, buying 0.99$ products and gamblers that need Bitcoin
transactions *more* than the rest of the people will afford the fees that
establish the equilibrium between demand and supply of Bitcoin transactions. The
people are free to use they money for whatever they like, but you should
understand that Bitcoin transactions are not free.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>I was merely attempting to point out that spammers and gamblers
would be the first ones that would go away. They would be free to spam or
gamble, but they would have to pay for it.</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee
market, they would be free to use any altcoin they want.<BR></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20766 dir=ltr> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20765 dir=ltr>Please understand that not
everyone will leave. The more important players will remain, those that need it
the most. The other players are free to use whatever altcoin they wish.</DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20764 dir=ltr> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16267 class=qtdSeparateBR> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16260 class=yahoo_quoted
style="DISPLAY: block">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16259
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16258
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16266 dir=ltr><FONT
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16265 size=2 face=Arial>În Miercuri, 29 Iulie 2015
16:47:57, Angel Leon <gubatron@gmail.com> a
scris:<BR></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16257 class=y_msg_container>
<DIV id=yiv4231441391>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16256>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16255 dir=ltr>"<SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16261
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">the
gamblers and perhaps people transacting very low amounts. </SPAN><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16262
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">The
people that actually need Bitcoin would remain."<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>so
people tipping, buying $0.99 products, and gamblers actually don't need
Bitcoin.<BR clear=none>Who are you to say what people need to use money
for?</SPAN>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16264><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16263
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">This
statement goes against the freedom of decentralization and financial freedom
Bitcoin should be able to provide.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20498><SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20667
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><BR
clear=none>It's an open network and it will be used as most users see fit, and
that requires a blocksize increase wether you like it or not, it's simple
physics, other time wait times will become unbearable for those not willing to
pay the high fees, if people leave, then it only mean bitcoins isn't useful, and
if bitcoin isn't useful, it's worthless.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16275 class=yiv4231441391gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20233>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20232 class=yiv4231441391gmail_signature><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20231 href="http://twitter.com/gubatron"
shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://twitter.com/gubatron</A><BR
clear=none></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16274 class=yiv4231441391gmail_quote>On Wed,
Jul 29, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev <SPAN
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20769 dir=ltr><<A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_20768
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR clear=none>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16273 class=yiv4231441391gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV id=yiv4231441391yqt01221 class=yiv4231441391yqt3541122396>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16272>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16271
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1438174338151_16270 dir=ltr>Hello,<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>I have been reading an argument saying that paying higher fees
would scare Bitcoin users and they would stop using it, preferring bank
transfers or other payment methods. This does not make sense for me. If some
users leave, then demand for bitcoin transactions goes down and so do the
fees. The others remain.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Fee market means that an
equilibrium is found between the demand for bitcoin transactions and the
available supply (given by the block size). The fee is the price that finds
this equilibrium.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>If a fee market starts to
exist, the first ones to leave are the spammers, probably followed by the
gamblers and perhaps people transacting very low amounts. The people that
actually need Bitcoin would remain.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Please allow
this fee market to form...<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>In the absence of a
functioning fee market, I will refuse to run Bitcoin code that increases the
block size and will do my best to tell everyone I know not to upgrade towards
running such code. If Bitcoin succombs to the free stuff army, I will sell all
the coins and leave. Nothing is for free.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I
apologize for any exagerations, but I just felt strongly towards expressing my
opinion here. I'm only a local Bitcoin trader, computer engineer, with a
reasonable understanding of free markets. And I'm running only one full
node.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Kind regards,<BR clear=none>Valentin<BR
clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>bitcoin-dev mailing list<BR clear=none><A
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</A><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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