<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On 7 August 2015 at 09:52, Wes Green via bitcoin-dev </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px 0px 0.357142857142857em;padding:1px 0px;font-size:14px;line-height:1.3em;font-family:Verdana,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Bitcoin is built on game theory. Somehow we seem to have forgotten that and are trying to fix our "block size issue" with magic numbers, projected percentage growth of bandwidth speeds, time limits, etc... There are instances where these types of solutions make sense, but this doesn't appear to be one of them. Lets return to game theory.</p><p style="margin:0.357142857142857em 0px;padding:1px 0px;font-size:14px;line-height:1.3em;font-family:Verdana,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Proposal: Allow any miner to, up to, double the block size at any given time - but penalize them. Using the normal block reward, whatev</p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace;display:inline">H</div>er percentage increase the miner makes over the previous limit is taken from both the normal reward and fees. The left over is rewarded to the next miner that finds a block.<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace;display:inline"></div><p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0.357142857142857em 0px;padding:1px 0px;font-size:14px;line-height:1.3em;font-family:Verdana,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">What this would look like: The miners start seeing what looks like natural network growth, and make the decision (or program an algorithm, the beauty is it leaves the "how" up to the miners) to increase the blocksize. They think that, in the long run, having larger blocks will increase their revenue and its worth taking the hit now for more fees later. They increase the size to 1.25 MB. As a result, they reward would be 18.75 (75%). The miner fees were .5BTC. The miner fees are also reduced to .375BTC.</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">The equilibrium for that game is just keeping the same block size, isn't it? Assume there's a huge backlog of fee-paying transactions, such that you can trivially fill 1MB, and easily fill 1.25MB for the forseeable future; fee per MB is roughly stable at "f". Then at any point in time, a miner has the choice between receiving 25 + f btc, or increasing the blocksize to 1+p MB and earning (25+f+pf) * (1-p) = f-ppf = 25(1-p) + f(1-pp) < 25+f. Even if you think bigger blocks are good long term, wouldn't you reason that other people will think so too, so why pay the price for it yourself, instead of waiting for someone else to pay it and just reaping the benefit?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">An idea I've been pondering is having the block size adjustable in proportion to fees being paid. Something like "a block is invalid if a(B-c)*B > F" where B is the block's size, F is the total fees for the block, and a and c are scaling parameters -- either hardcoded in bitcoin, or dynamically adjusted by miner votes. ATM, bitcoin's behavour is effectively the same as setting c=1MB, a>=21M BTC/byte.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Having a more reasonable value for a would make it much easier to produce a fee market for bitcoin transactions -- if the blocksize is currently around some specific "B", then the average cost per byte of a transaction is just "a(B-c)". If you pay more than that, then a miner will include your txn sooner, increasing the blocksize beyond average if necessary; if you pay less, you may have to wait for a lull in transactions so that the blocksize ends up being smaller than average and miners can afford to include your transaction (or someone might send an unnecessarily high fee paying txn through, and yours might get swept along with it).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">To provide some real numbers, you need to make some assumptions on fee levels. If you're happy with:</div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 1 MB blocks are fine, even if no one's paying any fees</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - if people are paying 0.1 mBTC / kB (=0.1 BTC/MB) in fees on average then 8MB is okay</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">then a(1-c)=0, so c=1MB, and a(8-1)=0.1, so a=0.0143 and the scaling works out like:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 1MB blocks: free transactions, no fees</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 2MB blocks: 0.0143 mBTC/kB, 0.02 btc in fees/block</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 4MB blocks: 0.043 mBTC/kB, 0.17 btc in fees/block<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 8MB blocks: 0.1 mBTC/kB, 0.8 btc in fees/block</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 20MB blocks: 0.27 mBTC/kB, 5.4 btc in fees/block</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"> - 40MB blocks: 0.56 mBTC/kB, 22 btc in fees/block</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">In the short term, miners can just maximise fees for a block -- ie, add the highest fee/byte txns in order until adding the next one would invalidate the block.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Over the long term, you'd still want to be able to adjust a and c -- as the price of bitcoin in USD/real terms goes up, a should decrease proportionally; as hardware/software improve, a should decrease and/or c should increase. Essentially miners would want to choose a,c such that the market for block space clears at a price of some $x/byte, where $x is determined by their costs -- ie, hardware/software constraints. If they set a too high, or c too low, then they'll be unable to accept some transactions offering $x/byte, and thus lose out. If they set a too low or c too high, they'll be mining bigger blocks for less reward, and lose out that way too. At the moment, I think it's a bit of both problems -- c is too low (meaning some transactions get dropped), but a is too high (meaning fees are too low to pay for the effort of bigger blocks).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Note that, as described, miners could try cheating this plan by making a high fee transaction to themselves but not publishing it -- they'll collect the fee anyway, and now they can mine arbitrarily large blocks. You could mitigate this by having a(B-c) set the /minimum/ fee/byte of every transaction in a block, or alternatively by enforcing each miner pay a significant %ge of collected fees to the miner of the next block(s).<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Cheers,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">aj</div></div></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">Anthony Towns <<a href="mailto:aj@erisian.com.au" target="_blank">aj@erisian.com.au</a>></div>
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