<div dir="ltr">Sorry about that Patrick. Gmail hides previous messages including sender names. Regardless, no worries.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 August 2015 at 23:27, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    That was not in reply to you.<div><div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <div>On 08/09/2015 03:09 PM, Hector Chu
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Right, you&#39;ve stated a bunch of facts, but how does
        it answer my concerns of the exploding cost of the network the
        more interconnected it it?</div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick
          Strateman via bitcoin-dev <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> I suspect there is
              some amount of confusion here on terms.<br>
              <br>
              The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment
              channels.<br>
              <br>
              The hub&#39;s entire business is centered around having
              payment channels open with other hubs/users.<br>
              <br>
              If the hub requires user funds to open these channels...
              then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in
              fees.<br>
              <br>
              A hub that doesn&#39;t use it&#39;s own funds to open payment
              channels to other hubs/merchants is useless.
              <div>
                <div><br>
                  <br>
                  <div>On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via
                    bitcoin-dev wrote:<br>
                  </div>
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              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p dir="ltr">On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, &quot;Mark
                      Friedenbach&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mark@friedenbach.org" target="_blank">mark@friedenbach.org</a>&gt;
                      wrote:</p>
                    <p dir="ltr">&gt; On the contrary the funds were
                      advanced by the hub on the creation of the
                      channel. There is no credit involved.<br>
                    </p>
                    <p dir="ltr">That&#39;s a chuckle.  </p>
                    <p dir="ltr">As I said, nothing requires the hub to
                      advance anything, and if it does, Bob can expect
                      to pay for it.</p>
                    <p dir="ltr">We&#39;ll see whether hubs assess a fee for
                      depositing funds, whether the fee depends on the
                      amount deposited, and whether it depends on the
                      amount of time it stays there.</p>
                    <p dir="ltr">I predict &quot;all of the above.&quot; There is
                      a name for these kinds of fees.  Can you guess it?<br>
                    </p>
                    <br>
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