<div dir="ltr">Lightning *depends* on global consensus in order to function. You can't use it without a global consensus network at all. So given that there is absolutely a place for a global consensus network, we need to decide whether the cost to participate in that global consensus will be limited above or below the capability of technology. In a world where anybody can step up and fork the code, it's going to be hard for anyone to artificially set the price of participating in global consensus at a rate higher than what technology can deliver...</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Bryan Bishop <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kanzure@gmail.com" target="_blank">kanzure@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Michael Naber via bitcoin-dev<br>
<<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Note that lightning / hub and spoke do not meet requirements for users<br>
> wishing to participate in global consensus, because they are not global<br>
> consensus networks, since all participating nodes are not aware of all<br>
> transactions.<br>
<br>
</span>You don't need consensus on the lightning network because you are<br>
using bitcoin consensus anyway. Commitment transactions are deep<br>
enough in the blockchain history that removing that transaction from<br>
the history is impractical. The remaining guarantees are ensured by<br>
the properties of the scripts in the transaction. You don't need to<br>
see all the transactions, but you do need to look at the transactions<br>
you are given and draw conclusions based on the details to see whether<br>
their commitments are valid or the setup wasn't broken.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
- Bryan<br>
<a href="http://heybryan.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://heybryan.org/</a><br>
<a href="tel:1%20512%20203%200507" value="+15122030507">1 512 203 0507</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>