<div dir="ltr">Cam, your scenario makes no sense.<div><br></div><div>> 1. Spoil the ballot. Have Bitcoin Core propagate the Bitcoin XT version</div><div>string.</div><div><span style="line-height:1.5;font-size:13.1999998092651px">> 2. Encourage all miners to false vote for the Bitcoin XT fork.</span><br></div><div><span style="line-height:1.5;font-size:13.1999998092651px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:1.5">This would obliterate any confidence in Bitcoin Core. I seriously doubt anyone would actually be ok with a pull request </span>implementing<span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:1.5"> this.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:1.5"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">> 3. Setup good Atomic Swap markets.</span><br style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px"></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">Who would bother writing this code, let alone trading on these markets?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">> 4. Setup a fork of Bitcoin XT that allows people to easily make a</span></div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">transaction only on the XT fork (while leaving the original BTC coins</span><br style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px"><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">untouched).</span><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px;line-height:19.7999992370605px">I doubt this is even possible.</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 6:02 PM Cameron Garnham via bitcoin-dev <<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think that it is important to note that Bitcoin XT faces a natural<br>
uphill battle.<br>
<br>
Since it is possible to setup atomic inter-fork coin trades. I do not<br>
see how Bitcoin XT could possibly win if Satoshi decides to sell 10000<br>
XTBTC for BTC everyday for the first 100 days after the fork.<br>
<br>
In many ways Satoshi gets to decide the winning fork just by his huge<br>
economic investment in Bitcoin.<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is some simple game-theory for non-consensus forks:<br>
<br>
1. Spoil the ballot. Have Bitcoin Core propagate the Bitcoin XT version<br>
string.<br>
<br>
2. Encourage all miners to false vote for the Bitcoin XT fork.<br>
<br>
- Now people have no-idea what % of the economy Bitcoin XT holds. -<br>
Making it impossible for people to put economic faith behind Bitcoin XT.<br>
<br>
3. Setup good Atomic Swap markets.<br>
<br>
4. Setup a fork of Bitcoin XT that allows people to easily make a<br>
transaction only on the XT fork (while leaving the original BTC coins<br>
untouched).<br>
<br>
<br>
This means that the Bitcoin XT fork will be born per-mature. Probably<br>
with only a small % of hashing power behind it (contrary to the almost<br>
100% that falsely claim to support it). It will be embarrassing that for<br>
the goal of larger blocks, XT instead has blocks (before re-adjustment)<br>
every 2h.<br>
<br>
<br>
The price for XTBTC coins will plummet, Satoshi progressively dumping<br>
his 1M stash over a year or so will make sure that it doesn't recover<br>
either.<br>
<br>
<br>
I cannot see how Bitcoin XT is but-not in a extremely weak position from<br>
game theory.<br>
<br>
I'm sure smarter people than I could come up with even more ways to<br>
disrupt non-consensus forks.<br>
<br>
Cam.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 16/8/2015 6:39 AM, muyuubyou via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br>
> I posted this to /r/BitcoinMarkets but I thought I might post it here as<br>
> well.<br>
><br>
> ---<br>
> Currently 0 mined blocks have voted for XT.<br>
><br>
> If it ever gets close to even 50%, many things can happen that would<br>
> reshape the game completely.<br>
><br>
> For instance:<br>
><br>
> - Core could start boycotting XT by not relying to them and/or not relying<br>
> from them.<br>
><br>
> - Core could appropriate the version string of XT, making it impossible to<br>
> know how much they are progressing and a losing bet to actually execute the<br>
> fork.<br>
><br>
> This kind of node war if the factions were sizeable would make it very<br>
> risky to transact at all - balances in new addresses could end up<br>
> vanishing. Usability of the system would plummet.<br>
><br>
> Note that any disagreement between the network and the biggest economic<br>
> actors - mainly the exchanges at this point, "wallet services" maybe -<br>
> would mean BTC plummets. Hard. And so would confidence.<br>
><br>
> It's a risky game to play.<br>
> ---<br>
><br>
> PS: I consider this attempt at takeover about as foul as it gets. The<br>
> equivalent of repeating a referendum until a yes is obtained: the<br>
> reasonable reaction to this is actively blocking said "referendum". There<br>
> was a fair play alternative which is voting through coinbase scriptSig like<br>
> plain 8MBers are doing, or like BIP 100 proposes for dynamic adjustment.<br>
> Once a majority is obtained in this way, devs have to react or if they<br>
> don't then this sort of foul play would be justified. But this wasn't the<br>
> case.<br>
><br>
> -----<br>
> 為せば成る<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div>