<div dir="ltr">> <span style="font-size:12.8px">Further, we are very far from the point (in my appraisal) where fees are high enough to block home users from using the network.</span><div><br>This depends entirely on the usecase entirely. Most likely even without a blocksize increase, home purchases will be large enough to fit on the blocksize in the forseeable future. Microtransactions(<$0.25) on the other hand aren't viable no matter what we try to do - There's just too much data.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Most likely, transaction fees above $1 per tx will become unappealing for many consumers, and above $10 is likely to be niche-level. It is hard to say with any certainty, but average credit card fees give us some indications to work with - $1.2 on a $30 transaction, though paid by the business and not the consumer.<br><br>Without blocksize increases, fees higher than $1/tx are basically inevitable, most likely before 2020. Running a node only costs $10/month if that. If we were going to favor node operational costs that highly in the weighting, we'd better have a pretty solid justification with mathematical models or examples.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>> <span style="font-size:12.8px">We should not throw away the core innovation of monetary sovereignty in pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the world's daily transactions.<br></span><br>If we can easily have both, why not have both?<br><br>An altcoin with both will take Bitcoin's monetary sovereignty crown by default. No crown, no usecases, no Bitcoin.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:14 AM, David Vorick via bitcoin-dev <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><span class="gmail-"><div>On Mar 30, 2017 12:04 PM, "Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev" <<a href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail-m_-4494335373548696587quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto">Raystonn, </div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto"><br></div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto">Your logic is very hard to dispute. An important special case is small miners.</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto"><br></div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto">Small miners use pools exactly because they want smaller, more frequent payments.</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">Rising fees force them to take payments less frequently, and will only tend to make more of them give up.</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">With fees rising superlinearly, this centralizing effect is much stronger than the oft-cited worry of small miners joining large pools to decrease orphan rates.</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></span><div dir="auto">Miners get paid on average once every ten minutes. The size of fees and the number of fee transactions does not change the payout rate.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Further, we are very far from the point (in my appraisal) where fees are high enough to block home users from using the network.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Bitcoin has many high-value use cases such as savings. We should not throw away the core innovation of monetary sovereignty in pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the world's daily transactions.</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div></div></div>
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