<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">About „how a strong 2 way replay protection is to be defined“ - maybe just listen to the community and exchanges?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Bitmex declared yesterday that they won’t support or even list B2X</b>, because you don’t offer the minimal level of security for the users:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class=""><li class="">Strong
two way transaction replay protection, enabled by default, such that
transactions on each chain are invalid on the other chain.</li>
<li class="">A clean break, such that the new chain cannot be “wiped out” by the original chain.</li>
<li class="">A
modification to the block header, such that all wallets (including light
clients) are required to upgrade to follow the hardforked chain.</li>
<li class="">A change in address format, to prevent people inadvertently sending coins to an address on the wrong chain.</li>
<li class="">New P2P network magic, to ensure a functioning and reliable node network for the both coins.</li>
</ul><div class=""><a href="https://blog.bitmex.com/policy-on-bitcoin-hard-forks-update/" class="">https://blog.bitmex.com/policy-on-bitcoin-hard-forks-update/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And to tell „oh it’s so hard to implement“ is nonsense, even BCash did it in about the same timeframe.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think you shoot yourself in your own foot by missing these features and I think a lot other exchanges will follow or followed already Bitmex (BitKonan f.e.).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This strategy is unprofessional and risky - for both sides.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 14.10.2017 um 11:18 schrieb Junyi Li via Bitcoin-segwit2x <<a href="mailto:bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org" class="">bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Marcel,</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">If you believe Bitcoin (SegWit2X) is not Bitcoin, this mailing list may be not the right place for you to complain, since you have recklessly violated the charter, for a long time.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">As many others clarified patiently, this mailing list is for technical talks only. To defend and improve Bitcoin project <span class="m_9055390552417804853s1">constructively </span>technically is the only aim of us.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">I respect your freedom of speech, but you should realize that you have already infringed others' rights. Frankly speaking, you are harrassing others.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">The toxic environment in Bitcoin community has already scared those most talented and reputable devs away from Bitcoin in the past years. Instead of continuing cursing, trying to be constructive is the required attitude in any work group.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Bitcoin (SegWit2X) is Bitcoin. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant. It's a shame to stand on the side of censorship.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">If you disagree on 'All human beings are born free and equal', you are actually humiliating yourself and harassing others by continuing talking about the constitution. </div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">We have confidence in defending our constitution and Bitcoin. The Berlin wall looks quite high, yet it's rotten since long ago. The censorship and propaganda were very effective in brainwashing useful idiots, yet its collapse is doomed.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Because, we have belief in Bitcoin. We believe Bitcoin is destined to benefit the world very, very, very much.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Welcome to Bitcoin, anyway.</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Sincerely,</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">(Sorry for this off-topic email.)</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class="">Junyi</div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(49, 49, 49); word-spacing: 1px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 00:38 Marcel Jamin via Bitcoin-segwit2x <<a href="mailto:bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org" class="">bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">On 14 October 2017 at 09:02, Jeff Garzik <<a href="mailto:jeff@bloq.com" target="_blank" class="">jeff@bloq.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">> "Strong, two-way replay protection" is poorly defined.<br class="">><br class="">> Segwit2x is an upgrade to bitcoin, not an altcoin.<br class=""><br class="">I and many others heavily disagree. The simple reality is this: S2X is<br class="">incompatible with Bitcoin AND contentious. Miners and business<br class="">adopting this approach to "upgrading" will fork themselves off the<br class="">bitcoin blockchain. You're trying to define Bitcoin's rules by<br class="">strong-arming changes through hashpower. It doesn't bode well for<br class="">bitcoin's future if this is actually successful.<br class=""><br class="">> It is an explicit design goal that SPV wallets continue working through the<br class="">> fork, following the strongest, most secure chain as they were programmed to<br class="">> do.<br class=""><br class="">... tricking them to follow an invalid chain, as SPV can't fully<br class="">validate bitcoin's rules. Validity is not solely defined by hashpower.<br class=""><br class="">> Therefore, any method of replay protection that breaks over 10 million<br class="">> wallets - greatly exacerbating chain splits - is rejected (and this has been<br class="">> communicated repeatedly for months).<br class=""><br class="">It doesn't break wallets at all, it merely fails to automatically (and<br class="">unsolicitedly) onboard them onto this WG's fork of bitcoin (=<br class="">incompatible consensus rules, new set of developers, new maintainer).<br class=""><br class="">> Put simply, we want most wallets to Just Keep Working. Certain types of<br class="">> replay protection break that.<br class=""><br class="">Put simply, you want to take most wallets with you without explicit<br class="">consent and certain types of replay protection don't allow you to do<br class="">that. You're only offering an opt-out approach requiring user action +<br class="">bloat on the incumbent chain.<br class=""><br class="">There are ways to increase bitcoin's capacity without causing a schism<br class="">like this. After all, we did just double it. Work with (virtually all)<br class="">bitcoin protocol developers, not against them. This merely means<br class="">holding off on a hard fork for a while longer, acknowledging that a<br class="">safe hard fork that doesn't split the community is a hard thing to do.<br class="">As it should be.<br class=""><br class="">And before anyone is going to lecture me again that this is off-topic<br class="">for this list (as a blanket defense when things get uncomfortable),<br class="">rest assured that this will be my last mail to this list. One way or<br class="">another, this will sort itself out.<br class="">l</blockquote></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:Bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Bitcoin-segwit2x@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>