[Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
Pete Brunet
pete at a11ysoft.com
Fri Sep 2 13:03:51 PDT 2011
Hi Rich, I was thinking the AT would try the relation first and if it
didn't exist then try accDescription, but the way you described would
work too. And yes both summary and caption would be deprecated.
On 9/2/2011 2:46 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
> That works for me. So if summary is null or an empty string then an
> AT should look to the describedby relationship.
>
> So, what will you do with caption? Will you deprecate it?
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> CTO Accessibility Software Group
>
> Inactive hide details for Pete Brunet ---09/02/2011 02:29:00 PM---Are
> there any objections to the following? Deprecate IATable2Pete Brunet
> ---09/02/2011 02:29:00 PM---Are there any objections to the following?
> Deprecate IATable2::summary and caption, adding the follo
>
> From: Pete Brunet <pete at a11ysoft.com>
> To: IAccessible2 mailing list
> <accessibility-ia2 at lists.linux-foundation.org>
> Date: 09/02/2011 02:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
> Sent by: accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Are there any objections to the following?
>
> Deprecate IATable2::summary and caption, adding the following notes:
>
> summary: If the summary is a simple string return it via MSAA's
> get_accDescription. If the summary consists of a hierarchy of objects
> provide an IA2_RELATION_DESCRIBED_BY relation.
> caption: Provide an IA2_RELATION_LABELED_BY relation.
>
> Pete
> -- *
> Pete Brunet*
>
> a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
> (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
> Skype: pete.brunet
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> __http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/_
> Ionosphere: WS4G
>
> On 8/30/2011 1:30 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> Summary is the equivalent of a text description that can be mapped
> to accDescription. The summary is not visible to sighted users.
> So, it behaves the same way as a hidden aria-descibedby. We should
> start being consistent in the way that we provide information.
>
> Captions are visible labels that have an object associated with
> them and a label relation should be used.
>
> We could apply a role of caption to the caption label if we had
> one. I see no need for additional methods in IAccessible2Table2.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> CTO Accessibility Software Group
>
> Inactive hide details for Alexander Surkov ---08/30/2011 01:22:56
> PM---When I started this thread I assumed that summary and
> caAlexander Surkov ---08/30/2011 01:22:56 PM---When I started this
> thread I assumed that summary and caption are semantically
> different than name (
>
> From: Alexander Surkov _<surkov.alexander at gmail.com>_
> <mailto:surkov.alexander at gmail.com>
> To: _pete at a11ysoft.com_ <mailto:pete at a11ysoft.com>
> Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list
> _<accessibility-ia2 at lists.linux-foundation.org>_
> <mailto:accessibility-ia2 at lists.linux-foundation.org>
> Date: 08/30/2011 01:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
> Sent by: _accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org_
> <mailto:accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> When I started this thread I assumed that summary and caption are
> semantically different than name (label relation) and description
> (description relation) and AT wants to have an access to them. If this
> makes sense then we should go with VARIANT approach, otherwise summary
> and caption should be deprecated. Do we have any use cases from AT
> perspective?
>
> Thank you.
> Alex.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Pete Brunet _<pete at a11ysoft.com>_
> <mailto:pete at a11ysoft.com> wrote:
> > I've been discussing this with Rich: rather than creating
> IATable3 and
> > having summary return a VARIANT which could then return either a
> BSTR
> > (for HTML) or an object (for other non-browser implementations), a
> > solution with less impact would be to deprecate summary and add a
> > comment that describedBy should be used when the description is
> provided
> > by an object (or tree of objects) or accDescription otherwise. That
> > seems acceptable for non-browser implementations as well. What
> do you
> > think?
> >
> > Pete
> >
> > On 8/23/2011 8:50 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
> >> For the 1.3 release, let me know if anyone is opposed to creating
> >> IATable3 with summary and caption changed to return a VARIANT
> instead of
> >> an IUnknown.
> >>
> >> On 8/22/2011 9:48 AM, Brett Lewis wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> What prompted this thread for me is my trying to obtain
> caption and
> >>> summary via the IAccessibleTable interface.
> >>> By convention using name and description is fine but doesn't
> really seem
> >>> to correctly implement IAccessibleTable and is only somewhat
> intuitive.
> >>> I like the idea of having the get_summary and get_Caption return a
> >>> variant with either the text or the IAccessible.
> >>> Brett
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Alexander Surkov [_mailto:surkov.alexander at gmail.com_]
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 8:58 PM
> >>> To: James Teh
> >>> Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list; Brett Lewis
> >>> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML table summary mapping to IA2
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Jamie. It appears AT want to get summary and caption (not
> a name or
> >>> description since they can be different).
> >>>
> >>> Brett, do you have scenarios to share?
> >>>
> >>> Thank you.
> >>> Alex.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:42 PM, James Teh
> _<jamie at nvaccess.org>_ <mailto:jamie at nvaccess.org> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Alex,
> >>>>
> >>>> Why are accName/accDescription insufficient?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Jamie
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/08/2011 1:36 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IATable2 provides caption and summary properties that return
> >>>>> accessible objects. HTML table summary is provided by @summary
> >>>>> attribute so there's no accessible object that's created
> from DOM
> >>>>> element. This can be workarounded by artificial accessible
> object
> >>>>> creation that is attached or not attached to the tree but this
> >>>>> complicates implementation and I would try to avoid it. Can
> we extend
> >>>>> the IAccessibleTable2 by summaryText and captionText
> attributes or
> >>>>> introduce summary and caption object attributes on table
> accessible
> >>>>> if interface change is not desired for this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you.
> >>>>> Alexander.
>
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