[Accessibility] IRC Log Minutes Draft; A11y Teleconf on March 28

Bill Haneman gnome at billhaneman.ie
Wed Apr 4 11:13:36 PDT 2007

By the way, I have not received any notification via email of the MathML 
group meetings.

best regards,


Janina Sajka wrote:
> A11Y Telecon Log [2007-03-28]
> Prepared by Gregory Rosmaita (identified as oedipus below)
> Edited by Janina Sajka
> Start of #a11y buffer: Wed Mar 28 14:52:47 2007
> * Now talking in #a11y
> * oedipus was disconnected and am back - can scribe on IRC
> * oedipus oedipus' offer to scribe still stands
> <oedipus> JS: short items?  CSUN impressions?
> <oedipus> JS: extremely impressed at amount of interest and 
>   large attendence that have to do with open source / 
>   standards / architecture; very well attended; only downside 
>   is that was disappointed that one product working in 
>   isolation; MythTV TV needs to experience the pain now and move 
>   to QT 4.3 beta now to pick up accesssibility support in widget toolkit; 
>   something to move forward on - perhaps a sample app that 
>   directly supports accessibility; GBH has a lot of experience 
>   on media side of things - doing all kinds of tweaks to 
>   software without any reality checks; maybe we need an "open 
>   dialog" or "open workspace" workshop; will probably have 3 
>   presentations for CSUN 2008
> <oedipus> JS: anyone else?
> * oedipus silence
> <oedipus> googleplex accessibility presentation at general 
>   session; would we like to hold A11Y face to face during the 
>   time of this meeting?  value having accessiblity workshops 
>   going on - interaction with others working in open source
> <oedipus> JS: discuss on next call next week
> <oedipus> Q: accessizer (sp?)
> * TGM has joined #a11y
> * gk4 has joined #a11y
> <TGM> http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser
> <oedipus> JS: accessible replacement for at-poke; ability to 
>   probe at entire desktop, single app, properties of all 
>   widgets, look for problems; tool itself accessible; 
>   available from gnome site: live.gnome.org/acceerciser
> * oedipus thanks TGM
> <TGM> sure
> <TGM> who's oedipus?
> <oedipus> JS: expect to have RPMs for that as soon as code 
>   stable and bugs cleared up - matter of weeks
> <gk4> http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser
> <TGM> (this is Michael in Chapel Hill, NC)
> <oedipus> David: couple of days..
> * oedipus oedipus = Gregory Rosmaita (New Jersey)
> <TGM> cool
> <oedipus> JS: draft mission statement; needs to reflect our 
>   changes; 2 more drafts - 1 objection "on behalf of PWD"; 
>   making direct statement of why standards being created 
>   should be explicitly stated in mission statement; any ideas?
> <oedipus> Neil: on behalf of good - shorter the better - whole 
>   phrase can go
> <oedipus> Olaf: wondering if we should limit this paper to 
>   certain groups of disability which we mentioned; do NOT say 
>   that this is about disabilities only - some have been 
>   addressed, some haven't; lots of disabilities that haven't 
>   been addressed; agreement of society whether you call 
>   something a disability, a temporary illness, or a different 
>   sitation of life; is broader better?  accessibility 
>   featutres can benefit everyone (accessibility is usability 
>   is accessibility)
> <oedipus> JS: can drop "on behalf"
> <oedipus> Olaf: add something at end to mention PWD
> <oedipus> JS: if you want to suggest something, i'm open to 
>   it; other than first sentence, rest is pretty much what 
>   we've had for years
> <oedipus> JS: other reactions on how to extend?
> <oedipus> JS: pull phrase entirely; olaf will submit an ending 
>   sentence to point out how accessibility has benefits for 
>   everyone
> <oedipus> JS: ISSUE 3: branding
> <oedipus> JS: desire to create open accessibility identity 
>   beyond scope of linux; always has been an issue that our 
>   group's scope is wider than just linux
> <oedipus> JS: george - were you going to get a local person to 
>   draft some graphics?
> <oedipus> George: what do we want in the icon?
> <oedipus> JS: lets discuss
> <oedipus> JS: concern is that by the time you spell out 
>   accessibility, it is too long; concerned about low-vision 
>   users - should logo itself have much more than A11Y or Open 
>   A11Y - alt text could expand acronym
> <oedipus> Gunnar: A11Y not a widely known term
> * oedipus general agreement
> <oedipus> Gunnar: logo itself should be easily understood
> <oedipus> GJR: cascade of logos with final one an SVG icon?
> <oedipus> GJR: cascade: SVG, PNG, JPEG - don't have to declare 
>   extention for IMG, just name of file, browser picks best fit 
>   or user's request
> <oedipus> JS: A11Y is a nice short tag
> <oedipus> Neil: a large number of people aren't going to get it
> <oedipus> ?: A11Y - open source accessibility workgroup; 
> <oedipus> GJR: use ACRONYM to contain A11Y expansion
> <oedipus> JS: talk with Rich S of IBM; increase visability; 
>   Rich and i are meeting with Linux Foundation chair; looking 
>   at getting handouts made, identify face2face oportunities
> <oedipus> JS: W3C doing a lot of work in this area of open 
>   source and distribution across platforms and apps
> <oedipus> JS: anything to take to meeting / phone call?
> * oedipus no response
> <oedipus> George: models have been rearranged; able to drop 
>   code before rearrangement; no opportunity to view new 
>   structure and code, but seems ok
> <oedipus> JS: Gunnar, can we agree on 1900 your time? can earl 
>   do a 10 AM?  wondering if we can use this bridge
> <oedipus> Gunnar: which?
> <oedipus> JS: keyboard I/O spec - earl wants to be a resource, 
>   but still limited in time can devote; can get history and 
>   context from earl so can transition Gunnar into chairing 
>   that group; should be near finalization; main thing is 
>   Gunnar's comments and that our doc and test assertions work; 
>   short meeting tomorrow
> <oedipus> JS: what i'm talking about is very mature 
>   alternative keyboard model and spec - StickyKeys, MouseKeys, 
>   etc.
> <oedipus> George: submitted libatk tests to LSB last summer; have had 
>   a chance to look at it, but couldn't get it to run; 
>   programmer just fixed it and resent to LSB this morning; 
>   interesting thing about tests is use locked-up mini api in 
>   GDK - tests will test ALL portions of the system; want to 
>   confirm correct methodology; need help expanding test cases; 
>   once establish right methodology, can call for more 
>   volunteers to work
> <oedipus> JS: want response from LSB that this is good 
>   approach, then expand what is being tested, so that we can 
>   make a module for LSB
> <oedipus> George: hook onto their resources - especially 
>   programmers
> <oedipus> JS: don't want to leave it entirely to them - david, 
>   will Redhat help?
> <oedipus> David: have to ask manager due to other commitments
> <oedipus> JS: will ping individuals to test ATK as go forward
> <oedipus> George: good way for us to get foot in the door
> <oedipus> JS: relatively light-weight, but essential
> <oedipus> JS: need to finish "how to structure an LSB doc" - 
>   went to list before CSUN - just resent URI to A11Y list
> <oedipus> JS: key is getting LibATK module integrated
> <oedipus> JS: pete not here - anything to say about 
>   IAccessible2 - question concerning eclipse and the GPL 
>   license - suspect no problem, but does anyone KNOW?
> <oedipus> JS: will take that up when pete available
> <oedipus> JS: need to dot the i and cross the t
> <oedipus> JS: MathML Handlers - telecon on this topic 
>   scheduled for next week on tuesday at 1pm central time - 
>   same time as this meeting, just a day earlier - JS will send 
>   out reminder - use cases and requirements; interesting news 
>   is that we're not the only ones looking for what we've been 
>   talking about; unhappiness in W3C about Compound Documents 
>   ignore MathML
> <oedipus> JS: won't be just math - would generalize quickly 
>   into any domain specific markup
> <oedipus> what they did for CDF (Compound Document Format) - 
>   use OBJECT or EMBED tag, don't deal with how to integrate 
>   and interact with documents; MathML WG felt CDF 
>   misrepresenting work, and they don't seem to care
> <oedipus> JS: in PF we are committed to not letting this issue 
>   go...
> <oedipus> unfortunately, doesn't address our REAL concerns; 
>   "these are things we might eventually deal with..." is 
>   dangerous verbiage
> <oedipus> JS: good news: not just accessibility issue; bad 
>   news: AT devs need compound documents earlier; is it an 
>   issue for browsers, API, hand-off to third party using 
>   standard appropriate ways
> <oedipus> JS: beginning to become convinced that naming use 
>   cases and environments not all that will be happening in 
>   this space
> <oedipus> JS: got through list in 40 minutes, rather than an 
>   hour and 20!
> <oedipus> JS: new items?
> <oedipus> JS: getting pinged weekly from NSF about where is your report 
>   - have to rewrite portions, funding issues need more 
>   concreteness - not just "yeah that's a good idea"
> <oedipus> Olaf: intellectual property policy?  software patents 
>   need to be dealt with - no word from jim
> <oedipus> JS: will ask if anything new and when we can expect 
>   things to be moving again when talk with jim on friday
> <oedipus> JS: anything else?  last call - ok, let's yield back 
>   the balance of our time!
> <oedipus> JS: thanks to all
> End of #a11y buffer    Wed Mar 28 14:52:47 2007

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