[Accessibility] [Accessibility-ia2] Text attributes issues

Willie Walker William.Walker at Sun.COM
Tue Dec 9 08:37:49 PST 2008

Hi Marco:

Thanks for the quick reply.  It was a while ago, so my memory of the 
whole thing is fading.  Now that you mention the -moz- attributes, I 
believe I recall one of the issues was how the GTK+ font attributes were 
being exposed through ATK.

I'm CC'ing Li Yuan on this to see if he can provide more detail about 
how we might (or might not) be able to use CSS attributes in the AT-SPI 


Marco Zehe wrote:
> HiWill et al,
> I wasn't involved in that original discussion for ATK text attributes, 
> but from our recent conversation in e-mail, from what Aaron said, I 
> thought it was intended for these text attributes to be CSS-named. You 
> provided a list of discrepancies, many of which seem pretty obvious 
> candidates to me. Some of them we have to fix, esp the -moz- attributes 
> we expose, but the others would seem to be obvious.
> Am I missing something?
> Marco
> On 09.12.2008 08:14, Willie Walker wrote:
>> Hi Pete:
>> Thanks for doing this analysis and writeup.  Very useful.  As we saw 
>> earlier this summer, normalization of text attributes is important 
>> across toolkits (e.g., GTK+, Gecko, Java, OOo) as well as across platforms.
>>>> Will, I don't know what to say about the Linux spec other than I know 
>>>> there is some pressure from Marco and Aaron to change it. 
>> It would be great if Aaron and Marco could come up with a list of 
>> proposed changes.  Are they working on this?
>> Thanks again!
>> Will
>> Pete Brunet wrote:
>>> I should have cc'd the open a11y list too...
>>> ----- Forwarded by Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM on 12/09/2008 09:25 AM -----
>>> From: 	Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS
>>> To: 	Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org
>>> Cc: 	Willie Walker <William.Walker at sun.com>
>>> Date: 	12/09/2008 01:29 AM
>>> Subject: 	[Accessibility-ia2] text attributes issues
>>> Sent by: 	accessibility-ia2-bounces at lists.linux-foundation.org
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Aaron, This is the list of text attributes issues:
>>> Existing entries in Mozilla's bugzilla
>>>     * text-indent and text-align should really be object attributes -
>>>       _https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=460932_
>>>     * font-size text attribute should be exposed in pt units -
>>>       _https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=467146_
>>>     * IAccessibleText::caretOffset should return -1 if the system caret
>>>       is not currently with in that particular object -
>>>       _https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=448744_
>>> Other Mozilla issues
>>>     * The Mozilla spec for the language attribute refers to IETF RFC
>>>       1766 not IETF RFC 3066 (which obsoletes 1766). The Mozilla spec
>>>       probably needs to be changed.
>>>     * In the Mozilla spec, font-weight has values of bolder, lighter,
>>>       and inherit while IA2 doesn't. These probably need to be removed
>>>       from the Mozilla spec.
>>>     * auto-generated and writing-mode aren't documented.  You mentioned
>>>       there were bugs opened for this but I couldn't find the bug numbers.
>>> IA2 issues
>>>     * text-position with no offset uses the term "baseline" vs 0. It
>>>       looks like IA2 should reference the CSS2 vertical-align spec, not
>>>       the ODF spec.
>>>           o Do you want to change the name of this attribute to
>>>             vertical-align?
>>>           o I propose the value list contain only baseline, sub, and
>>>             super and not the rest (top, text-top, middle, bottom,
>>>             text-bottom, <percentage>, <length>, inherit).  I don't
>>>             think an end user will care about the nuances of exactly how
>>>             far above or below the baseline the text is.
>>>           o I propose we drop the existing second parameter in the IA2
>>>             spec which specifies the size of the font of the
>>>             sub/subscript.  That can be covered via the font-size
>>>             attribute.
>>>           o The default can be baseline.  (It was 0%.)
>>> Other comments
>>>     * In the Mozilla spec, many of the attributes (like font-family,
>>>       font-style, and font-size) refer to CSS 1, 2.1, and 3 while IA2
>>>       only refers to CSS 2.  I'd prefer to keep the IA2 spec referencing
>>>       CSS2 because 2.1 and 3 are not at Recommendation state yet (as far
>>>       as I can tell).
>>> I'd appreciate it if Marco could take a look at the two specs and see if 
>>> he can spot any issues.
>>> Will, I don't know what to say about the Linux spec other than I know 
>>> there is some pressure from Marco and Aaron to change it.  Are there any 
>>> issues with using the IA2 spec?  Note that the IA2 spec is mostly based 
>>> on CSS2, plus one case each of an attribute based on WAI-ARIA and XSL 
>>> 1.1.  However, there are several attributes based on ODF which are 
>>> needed to provide access to ODF docs:
>>> text-line-through-mode, text-line-through-style, text-line-through-text, 
>>> text-line-through-type, text-line-though-width, text-outline, 
>>> text-shadow, text-underline-mode, text-underline-style, 
>>> text-underline-type, text-underline-width
>>> I didn't mention text-position because, as mentioned above, I'm 
>>> proposing that we refer to the CSS vertical-align spec instead of the 
>>> ODF spec.  (I've also asked the ODF office list why they are using a 
>>> non-standard attribute when text-position is so close.
>>> *
>>> Pete Brunet*
>>> IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
>>> 11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
>>> Voice: (512) 286-5485, Cell: (512) 689-4155
>>> Ionosphere: WS4G_______________________________________________
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