[Accessibility] minutes: Open A11y Workgroup Call (2010-02-02)
Gregory J. Rosmaita
oedipus at hicom.net
Tue Feb 2 09:25:45 PST 2010
aloha, all!
minutes from the 2 February 2010 Open Accessibility Workgroup telecon
can be accessed as hypertext at:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100202
and as plain text following my signature... as usual, please log any
corrections, clarifications, mis=attributions, omissions, and the like
by replying-to this announcement on list...
the next Open A11y Workgroup Conference Call will be held on 9 February
2009 -- a preliminary agenda for the 9 February 2010 call can be located
at:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Agenda20100209
thanks to all participants and to those who conscientiously review
minutes, gregory.
_________________________________________________________________
Open A11y Workgroup Conference Call (2 February 2010)
NOTE: These minutes have not yet been finalized.
Contents
* 1 Open A11y Workgroup Conference Call (2 February 2010)
+ 1.1 Preliminary Items
o 1.1.1 Participants
o 1.1.2 For Reference
o 1.1.3 Open Action Items
o 1.1.4 Announcements & News
# 1.1.4.1 Oracle's Acquisition of Sun
+ 1.2 Meeting Minutes
o 1.2.1 Topic 1: AT-SPI on D-Bus Port: Progress and Issues
# 1.2.1.1 Discussion of Topic 1: D-Bus Port Update
@ 1.2.1.1.1 Open A11y Deliverables - A
Re-Examination
@ 1.2.1.1.2 Mid-Term Work: March to September
2010
@ 1.2.1.1.3 Long Term Work: post September 2010
+ 1.3 New Business
o 1.3.1 Identify Topics for 9 February 2010 Teleconference
+ 1.4 Wrap Up
o 1.4.1 Summary of New Action Items
_________________________________________________________________
Preliminary Items
Participants
* Janina Sajka (JS/chair)
+ Pete Brunet (PB)
+ Mark Doffman (MD)
+ Mike Gorse (MG)
+ Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR/scribe)
+ Brad Taylor (BT)
+ Willie Walker (WW)
+ Jeremy Whiting (JW)
o regrets: none yet logged
For Reference
* Agenda for the 2 February 2010 Open A11y Call
Open Action Items
* ACTION - GJR: work with Linux Foundation IT team to fix problems
with new content management system
+ status: in progress; all links off of http://a11y.org/ should
now lead to the correct destination, and the information
should be current; systemic problems still being addressed
with Linux Foundation staff
_________________________________________________________________
Announcements & News
Oracle's Acquisition of Sun
JS: since Oracle bought Sun there have been cutbacks on Sun employees
working on accessibility;
WW: can't speak for Oracle as to what their plans are, as i don't know
_________________________________________________________________
Meeting Minutes
NOTE: These minutes have not yet been finalized.
Topic 1: AT-SPI on D-Bus Port: Progress and Issues
* AT-SPI on D-Bus Port wiki page last updated 30 October 2009 by
Mike Gorse
+ MikeG is maintaining the AT-SPI on D-Bus Port wiki page, and
will add info about AT-SPI2 development releases to the D-Bus
wiki page
_________________________________________________________________
Discussion of Topic 1: D-Bus Port Update
Open A11y Deliverables - A Re-Examination
JS: 1 intrinsic difference between open source and other licensing;
linux an open kernal, unlike MS, Mac, Solaris; right mode for
stragetically valuable deliverables -- LF taken on the Linux kernal;
LinusT is member of LF preceisely for this reason
JS: what else should be under LF umbrella; what is reasonable? plow
full-steam ahead on D-Bus? should we be slowing down?
WW: deadline to worry about is GNOME release; need to solicit from
community what 2.30 will look like -- posted to GNOME A11y list
yesterday (GNOME 2.30: go stable or go cutting edge? (2010-02-01) -
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2010-February/msg00005.html
WW: if can focus on GNOME 2.30 release (15 March 2010) can make
decisions there and then recommend future work; sustaining
accessibility in GNOME architecture
MD: how is work on 2.30?
WW: leave funding alone for now; pragmatic thing is 2.30
JS: short-term (15 march 2010) versus long term
JS: start with short term
MD: replied to email on GNOME a11y list; pretty happy with this week's
progress; when i check in what i have fixed, performance will be
better, especially re-entry performance; if need to go to D-Bus for
2.30 have a chance to make usable in that timeframe;
MD: not adding functionality; replacing existing working system with
another working system; serious structures need to be introduced now;
makes sense for users to give more time for testing over the next 6
months so as to improve user experience;
WW: biggest pressure in D-Bus port is deprecation of CORBA; had chat
with Andre last friday - CORBA will be in 2.30, so pressure to go to
D-Bus immediately is alleviated
BT: user perspective: want users to be happy - don't want to crash
2.30; delivering at end of February; if AT-SPI2 still unstable, need
to put more resources into it; noticed instability lately
MD: AT-SPI2 0.1.5 very unstable; introduced 2 regressions last week; a
lot of changes which is why is such a risk to go into GNOME 2.30
MD: 2010-02-09 release will be infinitely better than last release
WW: milestone - Orca regression tests run successfully; FF and OOo
work
MD: got 3 weeks to run regression tests and bug-fix; performance in
Orca could be better, although better overall; could rush for GNOME
2.3, but wouldn't be perfect
WW: 2.30 is end of GNOME2 work -- all CORBA based; make 2.30 last
batch with CORBA; introduce D-Bus in GNOME 3.0
MD: resourced to end of February to make D-Bus as good as possible;
less resources after February; need to ensure still improving over 6
months
WW: if do now, would have to hammer away heavily; risks outweigh
benefits
MD: agree; six months more of work and testing would be best
WW: if corporations are funding this work, ok
WW: 1 concern is user experience, the other concern is advancing
accessibility in GNOME and beyond
WW: BT and MD going out before 2.30?
BT: yes
BT: just releasing packages and calling feature complete by end of
february 2010
WW: shift back to CORBA for default; still want release where CORBA
turned on by default - 2.91 or 2.92
MD: what for 2.29?
WW: sounds as if you've made significant progress; have to test what
you have with Orca regression tests and evaluation for next week
WW: MD work on performance issues, so i will test with Orca FF, and
Open Office; stability of performance concern
MD: ok by me
BT: ok by me
MG: ok
JS: test are explicit and specific to applications that are most
important to users
MD: don't want to stop this work now and leave incomplete at end of
February; try to get as much done as can before end of February 2010
WW: we want this work to continue; do we target 2.34 as goalpost?
don't think have enough info now
WW: need to pass Orca regression tests with FF and OOo first
WW: MD, how to proceede this week? had to return all my powerful
hardware to Sun; only have netbook for testing right now
MD: will spend all week and some of weekend on this
WW: great
MD: can run regression tests - maybe can hook up and run regression
tests together
WW: let's definitely do that; will be available in GNOME a11y chat
room or on skype
MD: accessibility bus issues leave to side for moment; address after
this week
WW: we're hearing what the GNOME Accessibility community has to say;
want to give them a listen; interested in current packages
WW: LukeY says using CORBUS
WW: some distributions being more conservative; let discussion play
out while working on deliverables
WW: have a path to reach an answer
WW: i will make myself available to MD when he needs me this week
MD: apart from D-Bus, what else will change in 2.30?
WW: GNOMESpeak still there; SpeechDispatcher still in latent mode;
very late in cycle for new additions
WW: caribou still on target; if stay with CORBA, simply delays release
of D-Bus
JS: what about GBM?
WW: new GBM introduced a while ago, so no change slated for 2.30
WW: worked with Mike Cameron on caribou a11y -- think fixed problems
JS: Ubuntu going to support SpeechDispatcher?
WW: works fine with GNOMESpeech; SpeechDispatcher needs work on
integrating with everything (terminals, hand-offs, etc.)
MG: SpeechDispatcher should work fine; if run as service any app can
connect to it;
WW: may need to run SpeechDispatcher as a daemon
JS: may be an authentification issue
WW: yes, and managing server more appropriately
JS: tighter management of audio devices
_________________________________________________________________
Mid-Term Work: March to September 2010
JS: midterm? fluid environment; assuming get everything planned into
2.30; what happens in next 5 to 6 months
JS: do we need to get interim funding to keep development active?
WW: sure
WW: can't comment one way or the other on Oracle's commitments to
a11y; will have to contact oracle directly to ascertain attitude and
willingness to work in Open A11y
WW: personally, not going to be funded by Oracle to work in Open A11y;
want to see GNOME 2.30 go out the door as accessible as possible;
success: stable, accessible release, help set GNOME up for future a11y
integration
WW: post 2.30, i'm not sure; would like to continue in this area
_________________________________________________________________
Long Term Work: post September 2010
WW: long term stuff
MG: my team has funding for next 2 years; majority of team will be
moving off; still retain some people to maintain and keep updated with
latest changes from MS; hope to contribute to GNOME, but that remains
to be seen
MD: we have tried to get funding from those who funded us before, but
that is unlikely; will contribute what i can of sparce time after
February 2010
JS: situation: Open Source Accessibility in this environment is now
going to be based almost exclusively on volunteerism?
WW: need to hear from desktop team at Oracle; decisions being made at
very high levels;
JS: 1 thing we can do in short-term since oracle on LF board, perhaps
can get more official announcement regarding Oracle's participation in
Open A11y
WW: funding will end for current GNOME team; don't know Oracle's plans
JS: know that Oracle has people working in a11y for some time; haven't
been at this layer, but active in W3C's PF
ACTION: JS - contact Oracle's LF Board Member to ask for statement on
contributing work to Open Accessibility Workgroup
WW: hardest part will be funding, not ownership of deliverables
WW: GreggV looking for more public funding from federal government and
individual states
JW: makes sense because all government agencies requiring
accessibility for desktop, so makes sense for them to fund it
WW: argument: if want to sell, make sure successful; burden back on
people developing apps;
JS: enforcement model weak -- after deployment, if complaint, then
investigation
WW: shell accessibility and cost of access will always be issues
WW: will talk to GreggV to get his pulse on funding sources
JS: massive thanks to Willie for making Orca viable and leading the
way and spreading light instead of heat; wasn't all Willie, but it
wouldn't have happened without him
[general applause for WW]
_________________________________________________________________
New Business
Identify Topics for 9 February 2010 Teleconference
WW: proposed topic: "Status Report/Comfort Check with D-Bus Port"
_________________________________________________________________
Wrap Up
Summary of New Action Items
* ACTION: JS - contact Oracle's LF Board Member to ask for statement
on contributing work to Open Accessibility Workgroup
* meeting adjourned 1647h UTC
* next Open A11y conference call: 2010-02-09
_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes201002
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