[Accessibility] Diagrams for tomorrow's meeting

Brian Cragun cragun at us.ibm.com
Mon Jan 31 11:51:24 PST 2011


Hi all,

The diagrams and text outline format works really well on some pages, not 
so well on others.   Most of the problem is layout and visual overlap so 
you cannot read because of text on text.   It is best on small diagrams. 
Worst on large diagrams (more overlap).

A common problem is every diagram is pushed to the right.  Its as if you 
have landscape content being printed on portrait paper.  The far right is 
chopped off.  Not bad on skinny diagrams, but fails to show the entire 
heading.

How are you embedding the diagrams?   Are they GIFs?  Exported ODFs? 
Imported ODFs?   What copy do I make changes to?

Details:
Page 31 (Overview)  has an large empty box on the left, taking a full 
column.  The diagram and outline are on the right.  The diagram needs to 
be smaller.  The Key is causing problems because it is the part that 
overlaps, and doesn't seem to be centered.
Page 32  GNOME Magnifier    -  Readable.  But clipped on right. Everything 
is pushed to the right.  Title is chopped off on right.
Page 33.  Firefox.   Readable.  Key overlaps outline.     Everything is 
pushed to the right.  Title is chopped off on right.
Page 34.  Open office  Readable.    Everything is pushed to the right. 
Title is chopped off on right.
Page 35.  Java Eclipse.  Entire page is outline.   No diagram. 
Page 36.  Open office  Readable.    Everything is pushed to the right. 
Title is chopped off on right.
Page 37.  Overall ATK to AT layer.   Bad.   Tall outline overlaps lots of 
the diagram.  Diagram chopped off on right.

Let me know if you want me to try updating the charts.

Regards,

Brian

Brian Cragun
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center
www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able
W:(720)-663-2801    H:(507)288-2437




From:   Janina Sajka <janina at rednote.net>
To:     Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM at IBMUS
Cc:     Open A11y <accessibility at a11y.org>
Date:   01/31/2011 01:25 PM
Subject:        Re: Diagrams for tomorrow's meeting



Just a quick update regarding the diagrams in our ISO document ...

I have used the second of Brian's overview graphics as I believe that
was our decision. If I'm wrong that we decided that, we should discuss
this on the call Tuesday.

I have also attempted to include the list-based texted description for
this, and the other, toolkit specific diagrams. I will be interested in
how this looks, especially in the pdf version:

http://rednote.net/iso.pdf

I'm already aware that the numbering of the text descriptions in the
html version is wrong. However, before addressing this, I need to know
whether the PDF is similarly flawed (or not).


Janina

Brian Cragun writes:
> Here is the diagram for tomorrow's meeting, actually in two versions. 
One 
> with the links labeled, and the other with the linkage as blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the HTML file with the diagrams in list form.   (Added at top, 
so 
> easy to find.)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian
> 
> Brian Cragun
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
> www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able
> W:(720)-663-2801    H:(507)288-2437
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From:   Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM
> To:     "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>
> Cc:     janina at rednote.net, joanmarie.diggs at gmail.com, pete at a11ysoft.com
> Date:   01/10/2011 05:31 PM
> Subject:        Re: raw minutes from 2010-12-14 Open A11y telecon about 
> diagrams
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm unsure if I can attend tomorrow.   I may be able to get on for the 
> second half if I can excuse myself early.  I will connect via Chat, in 
any 
> case :-).  Let 
> 
> Here are the files with the simplified stacks.   First, I submit an HTML 

> list-based "view" explanation of the stacks.    Personally I think they 
> provide pretty good comprehension.  Let me know how comprehensible it 
> really is.
> 
> [attachment "Gnome Accessibility Project Architecture Simplified.html" 
> deleted by Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM] 
> The individual stack drawings are also available for those who want to 
see 
> a very rough box representation.   They box files are not pretty... 
still 
> in draft layout until we get the content right.  They are ODP files so 
> they can be sent to others who are smarter than me for detailed review.
> [attachment "gnome architecture diagram JAVA and ECLIPSE.odg" deleted by 

> Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM] [attachment "gnome architecture diagram 
> GNOMEWEBKIT.odg" deleted by Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM] [attachment 
"gnome 
> architecture diagram APPLICATIONS.odg" deleted by Brian 
> Cragun/Rochester/IBM] [attachment "gnome architecture diagram FIREFOX - 
> ATK.odg" deleted by Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM] [attachment "gnome 
> architecture diagram ATK - AT.odg" deleted by Brian 
Cragun/Rochester/IBM] 
> [attachment "gnome architecture diagram GNOME SHELL.odg" deleted by 
Brian 
> Cragun/Rochester/IBM] [attachment "gnome architecture diagram OPEN 
> OFFICE.odg" deleted by Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM] 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian
> 
> Brian Cragun
> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
> www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able
> W:(720)-663-2801    H:(507)288-2437
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From:   "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>
> To:     janina at rednote.net, Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM at IBMUS, 
> pete at a11ysoft.com, joanmarie.diggs at gmail.com
> Date:   01/04/2011 10:47 AM
> Subject:        raw minutes from 2010-12-14 Open A11y telecon about 
> diagrams
> 
> 
> 
> aloha, colleagues -- here are the raw minutes from the 14 december 2010
> discussion of the diagrams for the ISO report on AT-SPI -- hopefully i
> will get the cleaned up version posted to the a11y site later today, but
> i thought that having the raw minutes might help clarify our plan of
> action for ISO completeness, gregory.
> 
> =====  DIAGRAM =====
> 
> JS: a little too complex?  break up, keep complexity, but put in single
> diagram that can print on 8" x 11" page
> 
> JS: 1 way to do would be to split diagram at AT-SPI layer -- AT all in 
one
> diagram, applications on other side -- gain space, does it introduce 
more
> complexity?
> 
> JS: heard from Peter Korn -- suggested ask GNOME team do it; wiring for
> GNOME 3 break into own diagram -- leave applications out -- just show
> GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 trees funneling into AT-SPI
> 
> JS: AT-SPI ATKBridge -- GNOME widget libraries, uno, XUL
> 
> JS: thoughts?
> 
> JD: based on first topic (we have no people) asking GNOME people to do
> diagram after all work we put into it, would be silly -- very close to
> having updated diagram
> 
> JD: keep the diagram structure together, but simplify -- bottom of 
diagram
> easy to read -- top has complicated pieces -- make toop less complicated
> and have 3 or 4 additional diagrams: what happens in OOo; what happens 
in
> GNOME structural kit; what happens in FF
> 
> JD: having that level of detail is incredibly useful
> 
> JS: sounds like have strategy: overview: really simple diagram (no 
detail)
> -- hourglass with AT-SPI at funnel -- everything else elaboration, can 
do
> by toolkits that have created links to AT-SPI (GNOME, UNO, etc.) have 
OOo
> and java details and details on AT side, just need to fix GNOME section;
> fine if breaks out into several diagrams, so lets not leave out what is 
> useful
> 
> MG: useful to list toolkits that implement ATK -- if giving a lot of
> technical detail diagram could be nightmare
> 
> JS: overview of how to achieve accessibility -- GNOME done best work, 
set
> architecture, model followed by following tools, show implementation --
> break into individual diagrams -- "here is how works in java"
> 
> PB: still have complex one?
> 
> JS: breaking into several sub-ones
> 
> PB: would like to have this one available in future
> 
> GJR: can put GAPArcitecture in our space
> 
> JD: replace ones on GNOME space with our diagrams
> 
> JD: like idea of keeping big diagram for those who want to print it out
> poster-size; full one with top part simplified, with supplemental 
specific
> diagrams
> 
> JS: how elaborate do we want GNOME graphic to be -- 2 branches (GNOME 3
> and GNOME 2)
> 
> JD: find that useful -- envision simplified uberdiagram, then break 
apart
> everything else into separate diagrams
> 
> JS: have no problem including multiple graphics
> 
> =-=-=
> 
> Is Document OUtdated?
> 
> JS: should GNOME 3 be added to each section of the narrative of the ISO
> doc, and how?
> 
> JD: thought would cover GNOME 2 and GNOME 3
> 
> JS: need to take a re-read through it in january -- check for what is
> missed and to ensure applicable to GNOME 3
> 
> MG: already gone over once so caught a lot of things -- some changes, 
yes
> 
> JS: what is up at rednote.net contains all changes
> 
> GJR: homework for next 2 weeks -- review and discuss results on 4 
january 
> 2011
> 
> JS: do it if can over holidays -- if can, please send email to list
> 
> JS: 1 section without text -- new section
> http://rednote.net/iso.html#x1-540009 -- programmatic changes -- idea is
> can have apps or daemons making value changes like users can -- this is
> what environment has done -- supported pipes and redirects, now natively
> supported by OSes
> 
> JS: nothing in our environment that prevents app from doing what user
> could do -- design feature of Unix, picked up by Linux
> 
> MG: sometimes you might need API for it depending on what it is -- if
> refers to text field in document, that is something that is using
> editabletext interface
> 
> JS: could wire an app to do that
> 
> MG: can, because have API and ATK to handle it
> 
> JS: security managed by permissions infrastructure plus whatever custom
> security features in distro
> 
> JS: will also address interfaces
> 
> JS: that is it for ISO document
> 
> 11:43 AM 12/14/2010
> 
> adjourning until 4 january 2011
> 
> JS: thanks everyone for all of the hard and good work this year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

>                     Gnome Accessibility Project Architecture
> 
>    This document provides an accessible view of the Gnome Accessibility
>    Project Architecture. Relationships are described as lists.
> 
>    The Gnome Accessibility Project Architecture can be thought of as an
>    hour glass with the ATK at it's narrow neck through which the upper
>    application layers communicate with the lower operating system 
drivers
>    to the assistive technology. Each list in this document will work 
from
>    or work to the ATK.
> 
> GNOME Architecture Overview
> 
>    (Version 1)
>     I. Gtk+Gnome applications
>    II. GTK+ (with Gail)
>    III. ATK
>    IV. ATK / AT-SPI Bridge
>     V. AT-SPI
>          A. AT Client
>          B. Accessibility Broker
>               i. AT-API
>              ii. AT Client
> 
>    (Version 2)
>     I. Gtk+Gnome applications
>    II. GTK+ (with Gail) [ATK]
>    III. ATK / AT-SPI Bridge [AT-SPI]
>          A. AT Client
>          B. Accessibility Broker [AT-API]
>               i. AT Client
> 
> Applications based on WebKit
> 
>    Applications based on WebKit are in the application layer. The list
>    works down to the ATK.
>     1. Applications
>     2. WebCore
>     3. WebKit Ctk
>     4. GTK+
>          a. GAIL connecting layer
>     5. ATK
> 
> GNOME Magnifier and Shell
> 
>    GNOME Magnifier and Shell are in the application layer. The list 
works
>    down to the ATK.
>     1. Gnome Magnify
>     2. GNOME Shell
>     3. St
>     4. Clutter Apps
>          a. Cally connecting layer
>     5. Clutter
>     6. ATK
> 
> OpenOffice and derivatives
> 
>    OpenOffice and derivatives are in the application layer. The list 
works
>    down to the ATK.
>     1. OpenOffice and derivatives
>     2. UAA
>     3. UAA/ATK Bridge
>     4. ATK
> 
> OpenOffice and derivatives
> 
>    OpenOffice and derivatives are in the application layer. The list 
works
>    down to the ATK.
>     1. OpenOffice and derivatives
>     2. UAA
>     3. UAA/ATK Bridge
>     4. ATK
> 
> Eclipse and Java Applications
> 
>    Eclipse and Java Applications are in the application layer. They are
>    interrelated. Two lists are provided, first the Java stack and then 
the
>    WSAD / Eclipse Stack.
> 
>    The Java stack works down to the ATK.
>     1. Java Apps
>     2. JRE JA-API
>     3. JAW
>     4. ATK
> 
>    The WSAD stack works down to the ATK and partially utilizes the Java
>    stack.
>     1. WSAD
>          a. Eclipse
>               i. Java JRE JA-API
>                    A. JRE JA-API
>                    B. JAW
>                    C. ATK
>              ii. SWT
>                    A. GTK+
>                    B. GAIL connecting layer
>                    C. ATK
> 
>    This can also be view from the ATK up to the Applications
> 
>     1. ATK
>          a. GAIL Connecting layer
>               i. GTK
>              ii. SWT
>              iii. Eclipse
>              iv. WSAD
>          b. JAW
>               i. JRE JA-API
>                    A. Java Apps
>                    B. Eclipse
>                          @ WSAD
>                          @ Workplace
> 
> Firefox
> 
>    Firefox are in the application layer. The list works down to the ATK
>    and has some duplicate connection points
>     1. Firefox
>     2. Gecko Engine, XUL
>     3. nsAccessible Ext
>          a. MAI direct
>     4. nsAccessible
>     5. MAI
>     6. ATK
> 
> ATK to AT layer
> 
>    Five distinct connecting layers are outlined. Each layer has multiple
>    subsystems that communicate to counterparts in the immediately higher
>    and lower layers. The ATK in the application layer represents the 
neck
>    above the lower half of the hourglass:
> 
>     1. Application Layer
>          a. ATK
>               i. ATK Bridge
>     2. AT Platform Layer
>          a. AT SPI (ORB)
>     3. AT Layer
>          a. Alternative Inputs (e.g. keyboards, voice)
>          b. Screen Readers (e.g. Orca)
>          c. Keyboard Filters (e.g. Sticky Keys)
>          d. Mouse Keys
>     4. Operating System Layer
>          a. Speech Output
>               i. TTS Drivers
>          b. Magnification
>               i. X virtual Screen
>          c. BRL TTY
>               i. Braille Drivers
>          d. OS Device subsystems
>          e. Switch Keys
>     5. AT Devices
>          a. TTS engine
>          b. Eye tracker
>          c. Braille Devices
>          d. Switch Devices




-- 

Janina Sajka,            Phone:          +1.443.300.2200
                                 sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility                janina at a11y.org 
Linux Foundation                                 http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative             http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)


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