[agl-discussions] haptic touch panel.

[Takashi Matsuzawa]

I am sorry, I currently do not have my implementetaion.

But I think maybe some clarification on expected architecture (for reference demo) is needed.
(Which iof the possible architecture choice is used for this reference, etc.)
Any prior study on classification on possible architecture exists?  That may help us identifying where our reference should be positioned.

I think production haptic devices are sometimes intelligent.
The device (knobs, rotary switch) has ability to respond to the operation independent of the host sytsem.

I know a case where an app (or system) download button coordinate information to the device, so that the device (with hardware cusor on screen) knows which coordinates are buttons and when to give feedbacks.
Some knobs gives feedback by itself, regardless of host recognizing the input.

But I feel this cannot be generalized.
Also, it may also have benefit that host / app recognizes the input and give feedback.

- The input device to be used is intelligent?  Or not intelligent (e.g. simple piezo actuator that vibrates)?

- Should app ACKs?  Or UI framework (buttons on screen) ACKs?  Or device itself ACKs?

- What kind of feedback?  Vibration?  Audio?  Visual?

I personally feel common demo should be easy to be constructed, so that more team can develop / test on it, using the same reference.
But of course, this does not prevent some teams using intelligent / proprietary solution.

________________________________________
From: Mizuno, Wataru (ADITJ/SWG) <wmizuno at jp.adit-jv.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 1:48 PM
To: Takashi Matsuzawa; automotive-discussions at lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: RE: haptic touch panel.

Hello Matsuzawa-san,

I'm interested in haptic device.
Do you have any software design of this device? I couldn't find how the location of button is managed in the document on your mail.

Regarding the wayland/weston, I think from wayland point of view haptic feedback is handled out of compositor.
Because current wayland compositor like weston doesn't have any idea about which surface has what kind of feature. i.e. weston cannot know which surface has the role of button.

But I sometimes sees haptic device on cockpit at motor show.
I feel it is needed for automotive usecase.

Best regards,

Wataru Mizuno
ADITJ / SWG

+81-(0)566-56-0946


-----Original Message-----
From: automotive-discussions-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org [mailto:automotive-discussions-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Takashi Matsuzawa
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 11:02 AM
To: automotive-discussions at lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [agl-discussions] haptic touch panel.

Re: button response

Just curious:

In production headunits who plays "beep" (response to the button push)?
Maybe it is not the app calling "aplay"?

There is dedicated process for this, or an IC outside of Linux?
(So that requests from non-linux part of the system can be handled as well.)

If having such "beep" service is a common practice, having "vibrate" service (which talks with the actuator on I2C bus) should be preferred.

Though demo environment and production may be different, adding multiple devices on I2C bus may mean I need mutex or queueing among the apps / process to not to block the bus.

That kind of function is outside of wayland/window system?  Or part of it?

________________________________________
From: Takashi Matsuzawa
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 12:37 PM
To: automotive-discussions at lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: haptic touch panel.

By the way, AGL UI currently can give sound feedback (beep) when buttons, etc. are pressed?

That may be the places where we may also want to give vibration, or maybe flash (for hearing-impaired drivers) feedbacks.

________________________________________
From: Takashi Matsuzawa
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 4:21 PM
To: automotive-discussions at lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: haptic touch panel.

I can see an example deisgn of haptic feedback touch panel:

http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidu968/tidu968.pdf

It uses DRV2667 chip to drive piezo actuators which are attached to a WVGA touch panel.
On the document how-to DIY information is available, but it is not available as kit to purchse.

This is giving feedback by actuator vibration, actuators are controlled by I2C signals from the host.

I can see hobbiest I2C breakout board for DRV2667 is available (they sell this wit piezo actuators as set), so it may not be too difficult to make up something to give touch vibration on panel.
(Since AGL uses Full HD palnel, you may need multiples of actuators?)

https://hackaday.io/project/3086-piezo-haptic-flex-module

I think this might be very primitive demo.
(Not really sure - since I have not tried it yet.  Perhaps choice of waveform and number of actuators may give you good result.)

Alternative (not necessarily the choice is binary) option might be that going with mor professional and high-quality devices, maybe collaborating with special device manufactureres.

There may be more complex or advanced haptic solution available.
e.g. simulating the surface by ultrasonic wave or static electricity, so that you can "feel" buttons on the panel.
But they may need very special hardware or panels, which probably be difficult to get or hard to control.

But it may mean the demo systm becomes very expensive, and not all of the members can easily try.
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