[Bitcoin-ml] Transaction mining priorities.

Andrew Johnson andrew.johnson83 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 20 18:55:26 UTC 2017


On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM Erik Beijnoff via bitcoin-ml <
bitcoin-ml at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I find Tom Z´s suggestions for tx selection algorithms healthy and think
> it’s good that proposals of this kind are openly discussed. I
> wholeheartedly support inclusion of them in Classic and other client
> software that find them useful.


For sure, I’m not saying that his ideas are bad ones, far from it.  I think
they’re excellent.

>
>
> I see no reason to try to interpret miner behaviour, especially when the
> argumentation rests on shaky foundation. If miners find the suggestions
> useful they will include them in their operations. To do that they must be
> offered the possibility to do so.


That’s where I see the problem, is convincing them to implement it over a
purely fee based model.  I’m beginning to realize that this argument is
futile, however.


>
> Fun fact - when I see perfunctory references to game theory I usually stop
> reading from there onwards, disregarding everything that follows.


Fun fact - bitcoin’s incentive and consensus models are heavily based on
game theory, specifically participants in the system being self-serving.
That’s what keeps the inflation cap in place, and that’s what discourages
miners from undermining public trust in the system by doing things that
would result in short term profit increases but long term credibility
damage.

I worry about a government amassing a majority of mining power and using it
to do nefarious things to undermine confidence in the system because their
incentive is not to participate, but to destroy. That’s a failure of game
theory, not miners’ transaction selection criteria.


>
> Fun fact 2 - John Nash was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Although
> certain behaviour can be shown to be advantageous in some artificial and
> strictly controlled scenarios, care must be taken not to confuse those
> scenarios with the much more nuanced world in which we operate.


Fun fact 2 - attacking a person is a lot easier than attacking an idea.
This is snarky, but necessary.

I think I may stop replying to this thread, I appear to be turning it
caustic and unproductive by disagreeing with the implementation details.
Good luck!


>
> > On 20 Sep 2017, at 13:39, Erik Hedman via bitcoin-ml <
> bitcoin-ml at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > When I first read Toms mail, I felt skeptical. I thought that once again
> > is a developer trying to decide what miners should do which is a
> > paternalistic view. After I've been thinking for a while, I have changed
> > my mind.
> >
> > I was also having a paternalistic and prejudiced view on how miners
> > think, when I thought that they were going after short term profit only.
> >
> > Miners are humans, they are diverse. Some mine for the short term
> > profit, others for long term profit, others are also altruistic, or a
> > mix of everything.
> >
> > Debating whether Toms idea is viable or not is a waste of time. Some
> > miners will probably like it, others will not, how large these groups
> > will be is impossible to know, but that doesn't matter, it gives an
> > alternative to those who want it.
> >
> > Diversity is, in my view, good, so let's encourage that, even if you
> > don't believe in it. Because none of us decides, or knows, what the
> > market will adopt in the end.
> >
> > /e
> >
> > Den Ons 20 sep 2017 kl 18:26 skrev Tom Zander via bitcoin-ml:
> >> On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 14:25:34 CEST Tier Nolan via bitcoin-ml
> >> wrote:
> >>> Adding an altruism requirement adds another assumption.
> >>
> >> Nobody is adding such a requirement.
> >> --
> >> Tom Zander
> >> Blog: https://zander.github.io
> >> Vlog: https://vimeo.com/channels/tomscryptochannel
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> bitcoin-ml at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-ml
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>
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-- 
Andrew Johnson
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