[Bitcoin-segwit2x] To make sure my glasses are still working.

Dr Adam Back adam at blockstream.com
Mon Jul 24 10:15:43 UTC 2017


I do not believe most users want a split into two currencies.  Hard-forks
are decided by the economics of user choices, as they are opt-in to users.

Business and miners follow the economic value.  You can look at ETC for a
precursor for how that works, except here there is no central Ethereum
Foundation to try to bias the outcome, and now we have seen that before.
Exchanges tend to stay neutral, miners tend to follow profitability.  And
markets dont like uncertainty. VC and angel Investors dont like uncertainty
nor lack of ecosystem cohesion.

I think the sensible next step is to first deploy segwit widely, measure
the network and economic effects.

I think spoonnet is more interesting as a hard-fork because it includes a
number of features and bug fixes.  Pragmatically we can't expect the
ecosystem to make changes as wide-ranging, disruptive and requiring system
wide upgrade coordination as a HF at all frequently.  For that reason I
think most in the tech community think those "hard-fork wish-list" features
should be reviewed and a good set included in a planned hard-fork.

There are also further incremental soft-forks that can add scale in
parallel like schnorr and MAST, which are being worked on at present.

Lightning is a parallel track by mostly different development teams and
will see early adoption pretty soon after segwit is active, and wider
wallet adoption in the following months, and also has an economic effect in
amplifying on chain scale (via multiple netted lightning transactions).

Sidechain/drivechain/extension-areas might be higher priority than a fork
in terms of time-frame but also have different teams working on them.

There are other technical considerations and features that are not so
visible like network optimisation, redundancy, best practices for
decentralisation etc. It would really help if companies and miners worked
together with the technical community there too, because decentralisation
metrics could be assembled and effort on improving them would help both
scale and security.

Overall I think the bitcoin ecosystem will flourish faster if people work
together more openly, with better lines of communication, better mutual
respect and bring together the users, miners, ecosystem companies and
technical community for a grand-challenge on scaling.

The "unilateral fork" approach that Gavin started, of which segwit2x is the
4th or 5th incarnation, just create drama.  It will be better to fold the
initiative and interest for the grand challenge into a more inclusive
process that sees the ecosystem working together rather than risk a
currency split.  Even internal to companies today there are people of a
range of views (bitgo Jameson has spoken of) - it's like that for multiple
companies, and for users and miners.

In my opinion, if the ecosystem were given a free choice between a rushed
HF that sees a divided ecosystem, a split currency vs an ecosystem working
together with tradeoffs and challenges recognised and collaborated on, and
a more cohesive ecosystem - they would go for the latter.  It saddens me to
see bitcoiners fighting bitcoiners.  I can guarantee you that the "conflict
of interests" being acted upon theories on all sides, are false.  People
just care about Bitcoin, and have different perspectives coming at the
challenge of moving bitcoin forwards on the dual track of security and
scale.

That's my view.

Adam


On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 3:11 AM, Shaya Kutnowski via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Just confirming something for my own peace of mind based on the emails
> I've been reading. Segwit2x is happening whether the humans like it or not.
> It is unlikely that a fork is going to happen
> and Bitcoin core doesn't support it. Did I get all that right? For the
> most part?
>
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 9:10 p.m. , <bitcoin-segwit2x-request@
> lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Send Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list submissions to
>>         bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
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>> segwit2x
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Slack chat registration (Peter BitcoinReminder.com)
>>    2. Re: Slack chat registration (Charlie Shrem)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2017 23:43:37 +0200
>> From: "Peter BitcoinReminder.com"
>>         <segwit2x_mailinglist at bitcoinreminder.com>
>> To: bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] Slack chat registration
>> Message-ID: <CC4B57C4-B912-4FD3-9541-C4A79D5B6DD2 at bitcoinreminder.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply!
>>
>> I would like to discuss and help testing the segwit2x deployment, I think
>> it?s important to make the whole process as safe as possible for everyone.
>> So I really would like to join and support Segwit2x - I?m programmer and
>> think that I understand bitcoin enough to be able to at least contribute a
>> little bit.
>>
>> Best,
>> Peter
>>
>> > Am 23.07.2017 um 23:29 schrieb Charlie Shrem <charlie at decentral.ca>:
>> >
>> > Peter,
>> >
>> > AFAIK the Slack is to coordinate testing and deployment and have those
>> relevant parties in there. I personally contribute little since I'm not a
>> talented developer.
>> >
>> > Just curious: what do you plan to contribute to testing and deployment ?
>> >
>> > Charlie
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 12:30 PM Peter BitcoinReminder.com via
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > It seems that you don?t want people to join the slack channels, but I
>> kindly ask you again to invite me or show me the address where I can
>> register.
>> > Even James Hillard (which wrote most of the BIP91 implementation) is
>> asking for it[1], so I hope you don?t continue to ignore my request.
>> > If you think that the development of Segwit2x shouldn?t be an open
>> process, please announce it - I will stop my requests immediately.
>> >
>> > Thanks & best regards,
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > [1] https://twitter.com/james_hilliard/status/889196962406379522 <
>> https://twitter.com/james_hilliard/status/889196962406379522>
>> >
>> > > I was just ignored when I asked to join the slack and @CharlieShrem <
>> https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem> even asked them to send me an
>> invite(they ignored that request as well).
>> >
>> >
>> >> Am 17.07.2017 um 02:03 schrieb Peter BitcoinReminder.com <
>> http://bitcoinreminder.com/> via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:bitcoin-segwit2x@
>> lists.linuxfoundation.org>>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Since you claimed that your development is open / open source - I
>> would like to join the slack but couldn?t find any address where I can
>> register.
>> >> Can you help me out?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Best
>> >> Peter
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Bitcoin-segwit2x@
>> lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> > Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Bitcoin-segwit2x@
>> lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x>
>> > --
>> > Charlie Shrem
>> > Business Development Manager
>> >  <https://jaxx.io/>
>> > 325 Front St. W, #400 | Toronto, ON  M5V 2Y1
>> >  <http://facebook.com/decentralca>  <http://twitter.com/decentralca>  <
>> http://www.linkedin.com/company/bitcoin-decentral><
>> Jaxx_Decentral_Signature.png>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-
>> segwit2x/attachments/20170723/d95ec3cb/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2017 21:10:12 -0400
>> From: Charlie Shrem <charlie at decentral.ca>
>> To: "Peter BitcoinReminder.com"
>>         <segwit2x_mailinglist at bitcoinreminder.com>
>> Cc: bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] Slack chat registration
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAC787aMHOVuwk8GOBVJ=Sy3LVWdubWxshefgZMZXBc9f4qa=9g
>> @mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hey Peter,
>>
>> You can join here: https://btc1.herokuapp.com/
>>
>> *Charlie Shrem*
>> Business Development Manager
>> <https://jaxx.io>
>> 325 Front St. W, #400 | Toronto, ON  M5V 2Y1
>>
>> <http://facebook.com/decentralca>  <http://twitter.com/decentralca>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/bitcoin-decentral>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Peter BitcoinReminder.com <
>> segwit2x_mailinglist at bitcoinreminder.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Charlie,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your reply!
>> >
>> > I would like to discuss and help testing the segwit2x deployment, I
>> think
>> > it?s important to make the whole process as safe as possible for
>> everyone.
>> > So I really would like to join and support Segwit2x - I?m programmer and
>> > think that I understand bitcoin enough to be able to at least
>> contribute a
>> > little bit.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > Am 23.07.2017 um 23:29 schrieb Charlie Shrem <charlie at decentral.ca>:
>> >
>> > Peter,
>> >
>> > AFAIK the Slack is to coordinate testing and deployment and have those
>> > relevant parties in there. I personally contribute little since I'm not
>> a
>> > talented developer.
>> >
>> > Just curious: what do you plan to contribute to testing and deployment ?
>> >
>> > Charlie
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 12:30 PM Peter BitcoinReminder.com via
>> > Bitcoin-segwit2x <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> It seems that you don?t want people to join the slack channels, but I
>> >> kindly ask you again to invite me or show me the address where I can
>> >> register.
>> >> Even James Hillard (which wrote most of the BIP91 implementation) is
>> >> asking for it[1], so I hope you don?t continue to ignore my request.
>> >> If you think that the development of Segwit2x shouldn?t be an open
>> >> process, please announce it - I will stop my requests immediately.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks & best regards,
>> >> Peter
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://twitter.com/james_hilliard/status/889196962406379522
>> >>
>> >> > I was just ignored when I asked to join the slack and @*CharlieShrem*
>> >> <https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem> even asked them to send me an
>> >> invite(they ignored that request as well).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Am 17.07.2017 um 02:03 schrieb Peter BitcoinReminder.com
>> >> <http://bitcoinreminder.com/> via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> >> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Since you claimed that your development is open / open source - I would
>> >> like to join the slack but couldn?t find any address where I can
>> register.
>> >> Can you help me out?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Best
>> >> Peter
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> >> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>> >>
>> > --
>> > *Charlie Shrem*
>> > Business Development Manager
>> > <https://jaxx.io/>
>> > 325 Front St. W, #400 | Toronto, ON  M5V 2Y1
>> >
>> > <http://facebook.com/decentralca>  <http://twitter.com/decentralca>
>> > <http://www.linkedin.com/company/bitcoin-decentral>
>> > <Jaxx_Decentral_Signature.png>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>>
>>
>> End of Bitcoin-segwit2x Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31
>> ***********************************************
>>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shaya. K
>
> Kutnowski at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>
>
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