[Bitcoin-segwit2x] Strong 2-Way Replay Protection

Chris Stewart chris at suredbits.com
Mon Oct 9 03:26:18 UTC 2017


It seems to me if bitcoin forks the consumer facing companies would be
responsible for crediting users with balances on both chains. The word
'framing' makes me think of subjective marketing terms -- this is the
interesting thing about bitcoin -- we are dealing with a bearer asset that
*technically* can be forked by *anybody*.

>they can simply tell their customers that this is the upgrade path that
they will be taking, and if they don’t agree with it, then they should
remove their funds or cease to use their service

Again, I disagree about the word 'upgrade' in this context -- see my Peter
Thiel comment -- but otherwise this seems prudent if you are diverging from
consensus, but do you think there is enough time left until the hard fork
to actually do this in a responsible manner? A lot of people don't follow
bitcoin news on a daily basis like both of us do.

-Chris

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Jerry D Chan <jerry.d.chan at bittoku.co.jp>
wrote:

> They *could*, if they were framing the fork as an optional new
> transactional network option.  But if they are framing it as an *upgrade*
> to the existing one, they can simply tell their customers that this is the
> upgrade path that they will be taking, and if they don’t agree with it,
> then they should remove their funds or cease to use their service.  There
> is no way to ‘ask’ your customers that can’t be simply sybil attacked by
> those who will pay for social media noise.
>
>
> Jerry D Chan
> President and Founder
> Bittoku G.K.
> jerry.d.chan at bittoku.co.jp
> www.bittoku.co.jp
>
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2017, at 12:02, Chris Stewart via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> So again -- just to be crystal clear -- consumer facing companies that
> signed the segwit2x agreement should offer their customers this choice
> between the two chains?
>
> -Chris
>
> On Oct 8, 2017 9:55 PM, "digitsu" <jerry.d.chan at bittoku.co.jp> wrote:
>
>> It doesn’t require any assumptions.  Users (who tend to care about the
>> transaction validity and reliability of their chain) will move.  Those that
>> don’t move will stay because they value their principles or idealogy more
>> than functionality or security of their chain.  Everyone will get what they
>> want (to pay for).
>>
>> There is no coercion required.
>>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2017, at 11:43, Chris Stewart via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> You cannot make assumptions about what users will do (unless you are
>> assuming that the business they are using coerced them onto a specific
>> chain).
>>
>> Also the word 'upgraded' is very subjective. I consider upgrades to be
>> the Peter Thiel flavor of "0 to 1"  (legitimate new technology) not the "1
>> to N" that hard forking a block size increase does.
>>
>> -Chris
>> On Oct 8, 2017 9:05 PM, "Emil Oldenburg" <emil at bitcoin.com> wrote:
>>
>> I never said it will. Simply that the users will move to the upgraded
>> chain and the legacy one will have neither blocks nor users after a short
>> while.
>>
>>
>> Emil Oldenburg, CTOEmil at bitcoin.com
>> Visit the all new https://bitcoin.com
>> Wechat: emilold
>> Telegram: emilold
>>
>> On 2017年10月09日 10:59, Chris Stewart wrote:
>>
>> This is really alarming that you think this is how consensus protocols
>> work. The legacy chain will never reorg to the new currency. The two
>> consensus rule sets are incompatible.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Emil Oldenburg via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Chain splits happens once in a while, we had a chain split three days
>>> ago, even though it didn't last as no miner built a block on top of the
>>> AntPool block since the cost of burying it deep enough to reach more than
>>> 100 confirmations so it can be sold, simply was too high.
>>>
>>> https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/blocks/orphans/1
>>>
>>> Post HF, we will get a chain split, and blocks will be mined on both
>>> chains. But the economic reality is that the non-upgraded legacy chain face
>>> a significant risk of getting orphaned/abandoned. What is a good definition
>>> of chain split? 1, 100, or 1000 blocks?
>>>
>>>
>>> Emil Oldenburg, CTOEmil at bitcoin.com
>>> Visit the all new https://bitcoin.com
>>> Wechat: emilold
>>> Telegram: emilold
>>>
>>> On 2017年10月09日 09:56, Chris Stewart via Bitcoin-segwit2x wrote:
>>>
>>> So just so this is clear to the rest of the world, Segwit2x believes
>>> there will be no chain split?
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:57 PM, bitPico <bitpico at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://blockchain.info/charts/nya-support
>>>>
>>>> ~95-96%
>>>>
>>>> Do the math on how long it would take to solve a 1x (deprecated) block
>>>> with only 4-5% network hash power.
>>>>
>>>> There is no HACK in place to drop the difficulty either so it’s a dead
>>>> blockchain. :-)
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 8, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Chris Stewart via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>>>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So just to be clear, segwit2x no longer believes there will not be a
>>>> chain split come November?
>>>>
>>>> -Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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