[Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin

Chris Stewart chris at suredbits.com
Mon Oct 16 02:52:45 UTC 2017


>If the broader Bitcoin ecosystem is so against S2X, then why is virtually
every Bitcoin business, with an “evil” CEO, booming and not losing
customers in droves?

The chain split hasn't happened yet. Businesses -- especially those that
act as custodians -- will have to credit users with tokens on both chains.
Those that aren't acting as custodians haven't had the opportunity to
transact with the new segwit2x currency.

>These facts belies the narrative that there is no support for Segwit2x,
from a quantitative perspective. One could argue that the market is
rallying now because of S2X.

The closest thing we've had to a quantitative measurement is the bitfinex
future token for the economic majority (I don't count custodians voting
unilaterally on behalf of all their customers). Currently it is trading at
~0.85/1 BT1/BTC (bitcoin) and 0.15/1 BT2/BTC (segwit2x coin). I'm not
saying that this future token is perfect -- there are problems with it's
structure and some people don't trust bitfinex. I think it is a better
indicator of support for the two coins rather than just saying price
increase implies support for segwit2x.

https://www.bitfinex.com/stats

-Chris

On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Vinny Lingham <vinny at civic.com> wrote:

> I have an even more poignant question :
>
> If the broader Bitcoin ecosystem is so against S2X, then why is virtually
> every Bitcoin business, with an “evil” CEO, booming and not losing
> customers in droves?
>
> Reason for the question is:
>
> I’m very well plugged into the ecosystem and an investor in some of these
> companies - all of them are hitting all time record numbers on their KPI’s.
> And this is the prevailing trend right now.
>
> “Users” aren’t going anywhere or leaving these businesses, in contrast to
> what one would expect if there was no support for S2X?
>
> These facts belies the narrative that there is no support for Segwit2x,
> from a quantitative perspective. One could argue that the market is
> rallying now because of S2X.
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2017, at 18:06, bitPico via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> There is no fork. Perhaps it’s a spoon?
>
> Bitcoin1x if it exists post upgrade with less hashrate will be an Altcoin.
> The inverse is also true. But this list isn’t for speculation; just the
> facts.
>
> One of those facts is people are encouraging a chain split for self
> financial gain. Nobody knows the legality of printing money by blockchain
> duplication but we do know it is ignorant economics like a central bank
> would do. That said; those that want to keep the deprecated 1x base block
> size are economically ignorant or greedy or both as there is no scientific
> reasoning.
>
> 🤓
>
> On Oct 15, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Chris Stewart via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> >The terns of reference for the working group, as has been stated multiple
> times, is to avoid a network split.
>
> If there is consensus on one thing, I think we can all admit there is
> going to be a network split.
>
> Therefore, if this working group insists on creating an altcoin, it should
> have strong 2 way replay protection.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:02 PM, Phillip Katete via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> The terns of reference for the working group, as has been stated multiple
>> times, is to avoid a network split. Implementing strong 2 way RP would
>> effectively render the agreement voidable as it’d be fostering a network
>> split. From ALL Sybil resistant data available on the blockchain, and
>> despite what core would like everyone else to believe, the risk of a
>> “viable” split, sans HF by core,  though existent is at this particular
>> moment remote. As such, it matter not whether developers that do not want
>> strong 2 way RP are in the minority, what matters is that the client does
>> not render the agreement voidable.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Bitcoin Error Log via Bitcoin-segwit2x
>> <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>> *Sent: *14 October 2017 17:50
>> *To: *Mike Belshe <mike at bitgo.com>
>> *Cc: *bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin
>>
>>
>>
>> If you won't accept that a significant portion of Bitcoin does not want
>> this, let's at least address that some of the tech people in NYA-signing
>> businesses, like Jameson Lopp of BitGo, and Alex Petrov of BitFury also
>> disagree with the implementation. Are these companies going to ignore the
>> very people they hired to be knowledgeable?
>>
>> I'd argue a minority of developers overall do not want strong replay
>> protection. You do not have consensus of developers, Core, or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:19 PM Mike Belshe via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> I've banned Scott.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Cedrick Perrigo via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> You wonders do not belong to this mailing list. Get those silly
>> speculations elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's users deciding to use those services, not the other way around. If
>> users are not happy, they can leave any time. But yet you see, that's not
>> what's happening.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotonmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=HH1pm%2FcU4vcyt8MWoNFsk58G2A%2FcCOmNeM%2B0CYQjj%2Bc%3D&reserved=0>
>> Secure Email.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin
>>
>> Local Time: October 14, 2017 11:04 PM
>>
>> UTC Time: October 14, 2017 3:04 PM
>>
>> From: segwit2x_mailinglist at bitcoinreminder.com
>>
>> To: Cedrick Perrigo <cedrickperrigo at protonmail.com>
>>
>> Phillip Katete <pekatete at hotmail.com>, bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfo
>> undation.org <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>  If any of them are pro-segwit1x, they should immediately terminate their
>> business with those companies or stop using those wallets.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder then why Coinbase, Bitpay,.. etc are not asking its users or
>> telling them to " immediately terminate their business with those companies
>> or stop using those wallets“?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I never see people arguing on a Bitcoin Cash mailing list to show which
>> one has the majority support.
>>
>>
>>
>> BCash was professional enough to include replay protection - which is not
>> the case with B2X until now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 14.10.2017 um 17:00 schrieb Cedrick Perrigo <
>> cedrickperrigo at protonmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> Funny you listed something that only has less than 400 responses. How is
>> that something "objective"?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many people don't care or are neutral to segwit1x vs segwit2x, of course.
>> Businesses and services they use would take them to segwit2x, like the
>> 10,000 merchants and millions of users. If any of them are pro-segwit1x,
>> they should immediately terminate their business with those companies or
>> stop using those wallets. We didn't see it happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you truly think those poll counts, why would you still arguing with me
>> on a segwit2x mailing list? It only shows that you're extremely doubtful of
>> your belief. I never see people arguing on a Bitcoin Cash mailing list to
>> show which one has the majority support.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also you missed the counter-argument for "majority of miners". So I
>> assume at least we agree that majority of miners support segwit2x. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Now this is a technical mailing list. Would trolls please find elsewhere
>> for those nonsense?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotonmail.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=WSrtkzACs18iigpEiV3swUAmTTKKarsHXZRFJB7Ft0s%3D&reserved=0>
>> Secure Email.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin
>>
>> Local Time: October 14, 2017 10:48 PM
>>
>> UTC Time: October 14, 2017 2:48 PM
>>
>> From: segwit2x_mailinglist at bitcoinreminder.com
>>
>> To: Cedrick Perrigo <cedrickperrigo at protonmail.com>
>>
>> Phillip Katete <pekatete at hotmail.com>, bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfo
>> undation.org <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s funny how you imply that "10,000 merchants of BitPay, millions of
>> users of Blockchain.info
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblockchain.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=AUXYzKL8s0wdA8HdJK1T0DuQzKaavzb2xW8PeCc4nFQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> , Bitcoin.com
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbitcoin.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=c9OW4uo6jcPSs5l0FhD56T%2BCDLg8s8wQPWmIrhWJEc0%3D&reserved=0>,
>> Xapo, Coinbase, millions of buyers and sellers of OpenBazar“ are in favour
>> of b2x?
>>
>>
>>
>> The only sybill resistant poll which I know (even created by data of
>> users from Coinbase!!!) shows that most of the coinbase customers are not
>> in favour of b2x?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/kycpoll/answers.php
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fluke.dashjr.org%2Fprograms%2Fkycpoll%2Fanswers.php&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=YZobKJwi8nsc1hnCplhIBGUUess2m9bHSXHu654xLDk%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> This link was twittered on /r/bitcoin, /r/btc and reweeted also by many
>> B2X proponents.
>>
>>
>>
>> So please, show me some data how these "10,000 merchants of BitPay,
>> millions of users of Blockchain.info
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblockchain.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=AUXYzKL8s0wdA8HdJK1T0DuQzKaavzb2xW8PeCc4nFQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> , Bitcoin.com
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbitcoin.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=c9OW4uo6jcPSs5l0FhD56T%2BCDLg8s8wQPWmIrhWJEc0%3D&reserved=0>,
>> Xapo, Coinbase, millions of buyers and sellers of OpenBazar“ are in favour
>> of b2x?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 14.10.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Cedrick Perrigo via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the grand scheme of things, 10,000 merchants of BitPay, millions of
>> users of Blockchain.info
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblockchain.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=AUXYzKL8s0wdA8HdJK1T0DuQzKaavzb2xW8PeCc4nFQ%3D&reserved=0>,
>> Bitcoin.com
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbitcoin.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428146175&sdata=c9OW4uo6jcPSs5l0FhD56T%2BCDLg8s8wQPWmIrhWJEc0%3D&reserved=0>,
>> Xapo, Coinbase, millions of buyers and sellers of OpenBazar, majority of
>> miners do not count but you only count a tiny thousand people on a Twitter
>> poll. How funny this is.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you actually look into Twitter, there are only around a thousand
>> people who has the "no2x" tag. Not all of them are trolling. However,
>> people who state that those are everything that counts, especially on a
>> segwit2x mailing list, is certainly trolling and does not worth any
>> people's attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bitcoin will be what majority calls it. Period.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotonmail.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428302428&sdata=knjQe%2FnLnh7s%2Bc6R%2F6Lb%2BbEZYjlxFvWBO6yzR7h1nvE%3D&reserved=0>
>> Secure Email.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin
>>
>> Local Time: October 14, 2017 10:32 PM
>>
>> UTC Time: October 14, 2017 2:32 PM
>>
>> From: bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>
>> To: Scott Roberts <wordsgalore at gmail.com>, bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfo
>> undation.org <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the grand scheme of things, 1,168 responders is not exactly
>> representative of the bitcoin community, is it? But that number, for a
>> sample size, falls in the range of what is referred to as statistically
>> irrelevant. It seems like you’ll have to do even more reading up!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Scott Roberts via Bitcoin-segwit2x
>> <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>
>> *Sent: *14 October 2017 15:25
>>
>> *To: *bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Bitcoin-segwit2x] We are all bitcoin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I have NEVER seen a twitter poll on bitcoin that had a statistically
>> relevant sample size. But also bear in mind that by it’s very nature,
>> twitter creates bubbles where like minded people follow each other.
>>
>>
>> 1,168 with 30x difference in responses is very significant. Show me
>> the twitter bubble where like-minded SegWit2x supporters show their
>> support.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
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>> 3A%2F%2Flists.linuxfoundation.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
>> 2Fbitcoin-segwit2x&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%
>> 7C34137d5584c04799c18b08d5130f5dd0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa
>> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435879064911890&sdata=2tpwhMVlH96kQI9
>> h%2BEwbedJtbEffjz%2FMMOgKN3XMKyY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.linuxfoundation.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbitcoin-segwit2x&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428302428&sdata=WHbQBHSORNdZFyNxtPIb9psbIyJM6l8BSRzDf1ukJ8U%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Mike Belshe CEO, BitGo, Inc *408-718-6885 <(408)%20718-6885>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
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>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> John C
>>
>> Bitcoin Error Log
>>
>> www.bitcoinerrorlog.com
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitcoinerrorlog.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpekatete%40hotmail.com%7Cab6d87b04b384c02ccec08d51323b4ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636435966428302428&sdata=9ZFHwRpDl3bFPBUzkbyAvOqiN13IW9ip1nFhHZPKJGk%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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