[Bitcoin-segwit2x] September/October SegWit2x Status Update

Chris Stewart chris at suredbits.com
Wed Oct 25 20:34:27 UTC 2017


>No; the Fedora model exists and works precisely because it risk adjusts
against all manner of upstream events:  Project idleness, Developer
departure, developer grumpiness with some changes otherwise widely accepted
by the community, and more.

So I have a couple gripes with the analogy, you are mixing the following
interchangeably:

1.) btc1's ambition to alter the consensus rules of the bitcoin protocol
2.) providing a more efficient implementation of non-consensus critical
components of bitcoin core.

I have no problems with 2.

However it appears you are trying to achieve 1 by using 2 as a trojan horse
in this thread. Operating systems are not consensus critical protocols and
readers of this mailing list should have a high amount of skepticism when
the two are compared.

-Chris

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Jeff Garzik <jeff at bloq.com> wrote:

> Alex,
>
> No; the Fedora model exists and works precisely because it risk adjusts
> against all manner of upstream events:  Project idleness, Developer
> departure, developer grumpiness with some changes otherwise widely accepted
> by the community, and more.
>
> You can read more background at https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/Fedora_Project
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Alex Morcos <morcos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes but you're assuming the continued existence of the Bitcoin Core
>> project, but in the hypothetical situation where Segwit2X is the completely
>> dominant chain, there is no continued existence of the Bitcoin Core project.
>> There is no upstream in this scenario.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Jeff Garzik <jeff at bloq.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Alex,
>>>
>>> The plan was already stated in the thread.  This is a well defined open
>>> source pattern and situation.  btc1 will continue as a sort of Fedora for
>>> Bitcoin after the fork.
>>>
>>> It is irrelevant whether or not Bitcoin Core merges patches such as the
>>> 2X patches.  The codebase remains 99% the same either way.
>>>
>>> That is what Fedora does on Linux:   Carry patches that haven't made
>>> their way upstream.   Either the upstream developers merge or they don't;
>>> either way, the project continues.
>>>
>>> Consider reviewing another example from open source history, the GCC vs.
>>> EGCS situation.  https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/History#EGCS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Alex Morcos <morcos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff, I'd just like to clarify what you envision for btc1 after the
>>>> fork.
>>>>
>>>> Let's assume 1X wins: OK, makes sense to me, additional implementation
>>>> with extra features.
>>>>
>>>> Let's assume 2X wins: There is no Bitcoin Core working on "Bitcoin".
>>>> Bitcoin Core will either work on the minority chain (with different rules!)
>>>> for as long as that seems like it has a chance to be the Bitcoin again OR
>>>> it will just cease to exist.  The model of continuing to base development
>>>> off of the work of Bitcoin Core contributors when Bitcoin is clearly
>>>> defined by the 2X rules just doesn't make sense.  There will be no Bitcoin
>>>> Core contributors working on the 2X rules (or very few).  I'm not someone
>>>> who thinks that the contributors to the Bitcoin Core project are the only
>>>> ones who can do this, but I think you should have some plan for who is
>>>> going to work on it.  It won't be btc1 and Bitcoin Core, it'll just be btc1
>>>> after the fork (I don't know and maybe Classic/Unlimited?)
>>>>
>>>> NB: I think this has very low probability, but it's kind of crazy to me
>>>> that you don't even have a plan for what to do if you succeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Jeff Garzik via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>>>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no reallocation of time or commitment.   Metronome and Bloq
>>>>> are off-topic on this list, so I'll only cover this once.
>>>>>
>>>>> I run a company, Bloq, with over 25 team members -- not just one.
>>>>> Just like many other companies, we have multiple projects running
>>>>> simultaneously, and Metronome is one of those.  Our primary product is
>>>>> BloqEnterprise, which is a supported-Bitcoin product in the style of Red
>>>>> Hat Enterprise Linux.  Majority of Bloq revenue comes from Bitcoin.  If you
>>>>> are a large enterprise that needs Bitcoin support (or a very well funded
>>>>> startup), we would be happy to discuss a customer agreement.
>>>>> BloqEnterprise v1 is Bitcoin-only; BloqEnterprise v2 will be adding other
>>>>> chains to our product, such as Litecoin or Bitcoin Cash, as well as Eth/Etc
>>>>> support, based on customer demand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our vision at Bloq has always been:  Multi-chain, multi-token,
>>>>> multi-network, with Bitcoin - BTC - as the root of a security tree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for btc1:   As was stated in August, months ago, the code is in
>>>>> feature freeze until after the fork.  It is a software engineering goal to
>>>>> keep changes to an absolute minimum, and that is what btc1 is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the fork, btc1 will be continuing as a sort of "Fedora for
>>>>> Bitcoin" -- very exciting stuff, and a useful way to risk adjust versus
>>>>> Bitcoin Core instability or feature selection.   Several btc1 members have
>>>>> proposed new btc1 changes for post-fork, large and small.  It will be a
>>>>> very nice addition to the Bitcoin community to have an additional outlet
>>>>> for feature requests such as this one, a small change that makes life
>>>>> easier for DevOps: https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/issues/107
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Chris Stewart <chris at suredbits.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Has there been any thought to who will be maintaining B2X after the
>>>>>> chain split is completed? It seems the only dev, Jeff, has committed his
>>>>>> time to a new project called Metronome
>>>>>> <https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/metronome-segwit2x-developer-jeff-garzik-is-also-building-an-altcoin/>.
>>>>>> It doesn't appear that any significant portion of the bitcoin core
>>>>>> developers are willing to put their time and effort into this project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So is the plan to just fork and abandon the btc1 codebase?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Melvin Carvalho via Bitcoin-segwit2x
>>>>>> <bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25 October 2017 at 19:54, Jeff Garzik via Bitcoin-segwit2x <
>>>>>>> bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a follow-on from the previous status update in August:
>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-
>>>>>>>> segwit2x/2017-August/000265.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. To state the obvious, everything is still full steam ahead for
>>>>>>>> segwit2x upgrade in mid-November.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. As noted in August, the project continues to be in a code freeze
>>>>>>>> for the fork:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
>>>>>>>> /Freeze_(software_engineering)   Only changes or fixes thought to
>>>>>>>> be important pre-fork will be included.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Reviewing the btc1 project and branch policies, btc1 is a source
>>>>>>>> code fork of Bitcoin Core, very much like Fedora Linux is a
>>>>>>>> fork/distribution intended for end users.  As such, we track Bitcoin Core
>>>>>>>> updates as necessary and pull those into the project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. "segwit2x" is the production release branch for the SegWit2x
>>>>>>>> Working Group, and the latest release can be downloaded here:
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/releases/tag/v1.14.5
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. "segwit2x-dev" is the development and testing release branch.
>>>>>>>> New changes go to segwit2x-dev first, for external testing and feedback,
>>>>>>>> before being merged into the production branch, and labelled a production
>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. The current segwit2x production release, on the segwit2x branch,
>>>>>>>> is based on Bitcoin Core 0.14.x.   The current dev release is based on
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Core 0.15.x.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 7. I've been paying close attention to the Bitcoin Core 0.15.x
>>>>>>>> rollout.    Based on instability and bugs that upstream Bitcoin Core
>>>>>>>> project is seeing - ie. Core's bugs not ours - segwit2x will stay on
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Core 0.14.x through the November fork.  This is the most stable
>>>>>>>> path for users, based on upstream Bitcoin Core instability.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In short we -do not- feel that Bitcoin Core bugs and instability
>>>>>>>> will impact our project in the short term, because this is not yet in a
>>>>>>>> segwit2x production release on a production branch.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 8. The only change worth noting is a likely be an adjustment of
>>>>>>>> miner policy defaults that will be accepted through the code freeze:
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/pull/136
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the update.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was a question on a previous thread that I think went
>>>>>>> unanswered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the threshold for release still 80% miner signaling?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If miner signaling for NYA falls significantly, would it be
>>>>>>> considered new information?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI: latest metric is NYA signaling at 75% in the last 24h [1], with
>>>>>>> the position of ViaBTC still unclear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://coin.dance/blocks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jeff Garzik
>>>>>>>> CEO and Co Founder
>>>>>>>> Bloq, Inc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>>>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jeff Garzik
>>>>> CEO and Co Founder
>>>>> Bloq, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x mailing list
>>>>> Bitcoin-segwit2x at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-segwit2x
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff Garzik
>>> CEO and Co Founder
>>> Bloq, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Garzik
> CEO and Co Founder
> Bloq, Inc.
>
>
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