[Chaoss-Board] CHAOSS response to FSF
Don Marti
dmarti at zgp.org
Thu Apr 1 18:54:56 UTC 2021
I agree with Dawn on option 2.
The only suggestion I would add is to expand "DEI" to make it extra
clear to people who might not get the acronym right away.
Thank you everyone,
Don
On 4/1/21 10:23 AM, Dawn Foster wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> +1 to keeping it internal as an email to the CHAOSS community (option
> 2). I like the text as-is, and I'm also good with Kate's / Georg's
> suggestion of free and open source software.
>
> Since this is a community email, I don't think we need Sean's addition,
> which seems more appropriate for an external statement, but it also
> continues to give RMS additional attention for all of this, and I think
> he's had enough attention. I think our statement takes the focus away
> from RMS and turns it a bit more positively toward doing the right
> things for our community.
>
> Cheers,
> Dawn
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:23 PM Amy Marrich <amy at demarco.com
> <mailto:amy at demarco.com>> wrote:
>
> As the person who brought this up, I like the idea of keeping it
> internal and the suggestions everyone is making.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Amy
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:06 AM Ildiko Vancsa <ildiko at openstack.org
> <mailto:ildiko at openstack.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Georg and All,
>
> Thank you for writing up this summary of actions to consider and
> drafting the communication to the community as well!
>
> Especially with our focus and efforts in DEI I think it is very
> important to think it through how these events are affecting our
> work and how we could and should react to it for the protection
> of our community as well as the free and open source software
> ecosystem.
>
> I really like the letter to the community that you, Matt,
> Nicole, and Elizabeth drafted. I think it is always good to
> remind ourselves to our values and who we are and at times like
> this it is even more important to remind the community of all
> these and point people to the code of conduct should they find
> themselves in a situation where they might need it. I think the
> letter does a great job at highlighting our values that ensures
> the positive environment we have in CHAOSS.
>
> To Sean’s addition, I got a little confused. I would consider
> that paragraph to belong in a public statement if we decide to
> release one rather than in the message that we plan to send to
> our community. But I may have misunderstood what that would be
> the extension of. In my view, if we decide to release a public
> statement it is worthwhile to discuss what route we prefer to
> take when it comes to demanding actions before taking taking
> that step.
>
> Thanks,
> Ildikó
>
> ———
>
> Ildikó Váncsa
> Senior Manager, Community & Ecosystem
> Open Infrastructure Foundation
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 2021, at 16:30, Kate Stewart
> <kstewart at linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:kstewart at linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Georg,
> > "free and open source software" is fine. Just "open
> source" on its own was going to
> > be missing a key facet.
> >
> > Kate
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 9:27 AM Georg Link
> <linkgeorg at gmail.com <mailto:linkgeorg at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hi Kate,
> >
> > Thanks for forwarding the GCC email and suggesting to use
> "free software".
> > How about using "free and open source software" to
> accommodate the intertwined history and relationship?
> >
> > Best,
> > Georg
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 9:05 AM Kate Stewart
> <kstewart at linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:kstewart at linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> > Also of relevance to consider, that some of the FSF projects
> are signaling
> > they do not want to be associated with him as well.
> >
> > https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235245.html
> <https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235245.html>
> >
> > I'd consider using the term "free software" rather than "open
> source", as he is actively
> > harming the free software movement, more than the open
> source one.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 7:14 AM Sean Goggins <s at goggins.com
> <mailto:s at goggins.com>> wrote:
> > To the letter drafted below, you may want to add something
> along the lines of:
> >
> > As a community, we are aware of statements made by RMS in the
> past that are exclusionary. Of equal, or perhaps great
> significance, is that as a public figure in the open source
> community who is recognized for passionately non-inclusive
> language, welcoming him onto the board of the FSF would send a
> strong, and possibly lasting signal that Open Source Software,
> in the very largest sense, remains a non-inclusive work context
> for many. At CHAOSS, we are working to help advance open source
> toward a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive future. In that
> light, we think it is critical that we erase any doubt about our
> guiding principles of a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive
> future for open source software. For those reasons, we ask for
> the immediate removal of RMS from the Free Software Foundation
> Board.
> >
> > Possibly too strong. However, my point that RMS is more of a
> risk to the future of DEI in open source as a symbol of support
> for non-inclusivity, than he is a threat to DEI individually is
> the main one.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Georg Link <linkgeorg at gmail.com
> <mailto:linkgeorg at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi CHAOSS Board members,
> >>
> >> In the DEI Working Group call [1] there was discussion about
> the recent/ongoing concerns related to RMS rejoining the FSF
> board. As the DEI WG is committed to helping organizations and
> communities center DEI in their open source work, the question
> was raised whether CHAOSS could or should have any response. It
> is possible that the Linux Foundation is also responding to this
> (or already has) and any insight on that would be helpful too.
> >>
> >> We have three decisions to make and I would love your input.
> >> We don't need to make the choice right now, we can first
> discuss.
> >> I will voice my own opinion in a response to this email
> tomorrow.
> >>
> >> # Decision 1 - YES/NO: Public Statement: Does CHAOSS make a
> public statement?
> >>
> >> Other organizations have publicly stated how they stand on
> the subject of bringing RMS back on board but more broadly about
> expecting respect and dignity from free software and open source
> leaders. Examples:
> >> • OpenUK:
> https://openuk.uk/openuk-response-to-richard-stallmans-reinstatement-to-fsf-board/
> <https://openuk.uk/openuk-response-to-richard-stallmans-reinstatement-to-fsf-board/>
> >> • RedHat:
> https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-statement-about-richard-stallmans-return-free-software-foundation-board
> <https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-statement-about-richard-stallmans-return-free-software-foundation-board>
> >> • Outreachy:
> https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/
> <https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/>
> >>
> >> # Decision 2 - YES/NO: Community Communication: Do we, as
> the board, send a message to our community members?
> >>
> >> We are lucky with how inclusive the CHAOSS community is and
> now might be a good time to reinforce that this is by design and
> choice, affirming to our community members that we value and
> strive for DEI, respect, and positive.
> >>
> >> Here is a draft for the CHAOSS mailing list that we can discuss:
> >>
> >> >>>
> >> Hello CHAOSS Community members,
> >>
> >> In light of recent events surrounding the FSF, we wanted to
> reach out to our community; specifically those who may feel
> uncertain what our stance is. We wanted to assure you that this
> community does not condone or tolerate harassment or
> inappropriate conduct at any time.
> >>
> >> We would also like to extend our sincere thank you to all of
> you. Your effort and contributions are what make the CHAOSS
> community who we are. We welcome and support everyone.You have
> all been excellent in creating a positive environment by:
> >> • Using welcoming and inclusive language
> >> • Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
> >> • Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
> >> • Focusing on what is best for the community
> >> • Showing empathy towards other community members
> >> Should you notice unacceptable behavior, please use our
> process in our Code of Conduct to allow us to restore the
> positive environment we are currently enjoying in CHAOSS.
> >> >>>
> >>
> >> Thank you to Matt, Nicole, and Elizabeth for helping with
> the draft.
> >>
> >>
> >> # Decision 3 - YES/NO: Sign Open Letter: Does CHAOSS sign
> the open letter to FSF?
> >>
> >> This is the letter: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
> <https://rms-open-letter.github.io/>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are your thoughts?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Georg
> >>
> >> PS: Please remember that the CHAOSS Board mailing list has a
> public archive. You can share your thoughts privately with me
> and other board members by sending a direct email.
> >>
> >> [1] CHAOSS DEI meeting from 2021-03-24, starting at minute 28:30
> >>
> >> --
> >> Georg Link, PhD
> >> (he/him)
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> > --
> > Georg Link, PhD
> > (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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