[Chaoss-software] [Oss-health-metrics] [CoC working group] Invite to Code of Conduct working group

Wed Nov 15 20:04:22 UTC 2017

Dear all,

I apologise for being absent during the last meeting/call. As Jesus and Sean suggest perception of appropriate ethical actions stipulated by codes of conduct differs across cultures. Even when considering solely Western European countries Arnold et al. found that "differences in the perceptions of ethicality associate primarily with the participants’ country as opposed to their employer (i.e., accounting firm), employment level, or gender" and "that these country differences were further associated with the Hofstede’s cultural constructs of Masculinity and Individualism" (e.g., see attached the picture with a selection of Hofstede dimensions for four countries created using https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-countries/)

Best wishes
Alexander

Arnold et al. The Effect of Country and Culture on Perceptions of Appropriate Ethical Actions Prescribed by Codes of Conduct: A Western European Perspective among Accountants. J Bus Ethics (2007) 70: 327.
________________________________
Van: oss-health-metrics-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org [oss-health-metrics-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org] namens Sean Goggins [s at goggins.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 15 november 2017 20:46
Aan: Jesus M. Gonzalez-Barahona
CC: Oss-health-metrics at lists.linuxfoundation.org; chaoss-software at lists.linuxfoundation.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Oss-health-metrics] [CoC working group] Invite to Code of Conduct working group

Jesus,

You raise an important point about how different cultures will feel about being advised not to engage in unacceptable behaviors.

I know in the US we are specifically concerned about harassment of female contributors and the extradorinaiy imbalance between men and women on many projects (which many, including me, interpret as a side effect of reasonable human beings choosing not to “put up with shit.”). Other dimensions of diversity and inclusion are of course also important. But it is the case that at least historically, women experience a lot more direct, unacceptable behavior than men.

I cannot speak to other cultures, of course, so I definitely want to know if the language in the GitHub codes of conduct would be problematic across cultures.

Everyone: Please accept my apologies for not being particularly sophisticated about how I communicate about complex, nuanced issues. I am happy for this discussion to become one we all learn from.

Thanks,

Sean

On Nov 15, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Jesus M. Gonzalez-Barahona <jgb at bitergia.com<mailto:jgb at bitergia.com>> wrote:

>From my point of view, listing unacceptable behaviors is not a problem.
But a CoC could also list laudable behaviors. Or something that makes
it clear that the CoC is that, a code of how to behave, and not some
unwelcoming rules that seem to assume most of the people in the
community don't know how to behave and need explicit guidance in topics
that from many points of view seem obvious.

I'm sorry, maybe this is due to my cultural background, but approaching
a community which tries to explain me how to behave, assuming I don't
know (and specially with very obvious recommendations), makes me feel
unwelcome. I rather prefer they assume I'm a good person, and encourage
me with recommendations that show an open spirit.

All this said, I know this is a matter of balance, and listings of
unacceptable behaviors are there for a reason. If you all agree with
what we decided yesterday, let's just have our personal balance in mind
when we analyze the proposed CoCs.

Saludos,

Jesus.

On Wed, 2017-11-15 at 10:56 -0800, Raymond Paik wrote:
OpenStack takes a similar approach.  It's mostly aspirational, but
also lists unacceptable behaviors.

See: https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Sean Goggins <s at goggins.com<mailto:s at goggins.com>> wrote:
Hi All:

I agree in general with the principle of keeping statements
positive. I do not know, however, if “staying positive” is an act
of not acknowledging the most common unacceptable behaviors
experienced historically in open source software projects.

I do not have answers, just a question.  GitHub is using 2
different terms of services templates now, and these may be worth
considering.

One is the contributor covenant:

https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.ht
ml

The other is the citizen code of conduct:

http://citizencodeofconduct.org/

Both enumerate historically unacceptable behaviors.

My opinion is that GitHub is working hard to set the standard for
inclusivity in open source projects by making these code of conduct
templates available for all their projects now.

I ask that we consider the possibility that explicitly noting
historically problematic behaviors might be viewed positively by
folks who have had to deal with them.

Thanks!

Sean

On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Raymond Paik <rpaik at linuxfoundation.
org> wrote:

Thanks that makes sense and agree :-)

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 5:26 AM, Georg Link <glink at unomaha.edu>
wrote:
Thanks, Ray and Jesus. I have nothing to add.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 3:02 AM, Jesus M. Gonzalez-Barahona <jg
b at bitergia.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2017-11-14 at 21:48 -0800, Raymond Paik wrote:
Thanks Georg....  Sorry I could not be at the meeting.

A clarifying question on one of the items.  When you say
"digital", I
assume that means the CoC not only cover behaviors at in-
person
events/events (in physical spaces), but also behaviors
online (e-
mail, conference calls, etc.)?

Yes. In fact, that "digital behaviour" is more important for
us that
"in-place", since the former would be far more frequent.

This comes in part from the fact that, due maybe to
historical reasons,
some CoC could seem designed for in-place situations, with
only some
mentions or "extensions" for digital situations.

       Jesus

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Sean P. Goggins
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Director, Data Science and Analytics Masters Program
University of Missouri
http://www.seangoggins.net

Computer Science:  http://engineering.missouri.edu/cs/
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visit: http://www.sociotech.net
visit: http://osshealth.io (for ghdata OSS Metrics
Software) [Sloan Foundation]
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‌‌
"I finally comprehended the difference between critical thinking
and its opposite.  Technical people are not dumb, quite the
contrary, but technical curricula rarely include critical
thinking in the sense I have in mind.  Critical thinking means that
you can, so to speak, see your glasses.  You can look at the world,
or you can back up and look at the framework of concepts
and assumptions and practices *through* which you look at the
world."
-- Phil Agre, http://wtf.tw/ref/agre.html

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Sean P. Goggins
Associate Professor, Computer Science
Director, Data Science and Analytics Masters Program
University of Missouri
http://www.seangoggins.net<http://www.seangoggins.net/>

Computer Science:  http://engineering.missouri.edu/cs/ <http://engineering.missouri.edu/cs/>
Data Science & Analytics: http://dsa.missouri.edu<http://dsa.missouri.edu/>
MU Informatics Institute http://muii.missouri.edu<http://muii.missouri.edu/>
visit: http://www.sociotech.net<http://www.sociotech.net/>
visit: http://osshealth.io<http://osshealth.io/> (for ghdata OSS Metrics Software) [Sloan Foundation]
visit: <http://chaoss.community/> <http://chaoss.community> http://c<http://c/>haoss.community (for open source health metrics) [Sloan Foundation]
visit: http://mhs.missouri.edu<http://mhs.missouri.edu/> (for mission hydro sci!) [i3 & IES]
visit: http://ocdx.io<http://ocdx.io/> (for the open collaboration data exchange!)   [National Science Foundation]
visit: http://sociallycompute.io<http://sociallycompute.io/> (for code like things and Group Informatics) [National Science Foundation]

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
-- Margaret Mead

"It may be that openness is a bad choice for communities, but it's a great choice for groups that want to span, not colonize. Span, not colonize. Include, not exclude. Learn from, not teach at."
-- Steve Sawyer with Tony Salvador

‌‌"I finally comprehended the difference between critical thinking and its opposite.  Technical people are not dumb, quite the contrary, but technical curricula rarely include critical thinking in the sense I have in mind.  Critical thinking means that you can, so to speak, see your glasses.  You can look at the world, or you can back up and look at the framework of concepts and assumptions and practices *through* which you look at the world."
-- Phil Agre, http://wtf.tw/ref/agre.html

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