From imurdock at imurdock.com Mon Nov 27 12:32:42 2006 From: imurdock at imurdock.com (Ian Murdock) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] LSB Steering Committee conference call (Wednesday, November 29, 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST) Message-ID: The next LSB Steering Committee conference call is Wednesday at 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST. The call in details are: 800-409-5512 (U.S.) 503-767-1200 (international) PIN: 33043 Agenda is LSB project governance and a related issue: How the LSB relates to other FSG workgroups. The broad goal is to blur the distinction between the LSB "subgroups" (LSB Core, LSB Desktop) and the other FSG workgroups, and to make the LSB the primary delivery vehicle for the standards each produces. So, e.g., there would still be an OpenI18n workgroup that operates more or less autonomously from the LSB, but its deliverables would be LSB modules designed to integrate with the larger LSB rather than something delivered separately. That way, deciding what's in "the LSB" is mostly a matter of deciding which modules are mandatory and which are optional. This allows for late binding, which means we can move forward on new initiatives without getting ahead of the distros, deciding what goes into LSB proper once it becomes clear what the distros have decided to adopt, and in the meantime hopefully provide a useful forum for the distros and others to collaborate on solving some of these other problems. I'll be sending out proposed amendments to the charter etc. late tomorrow for your review, and I'd like to approve them at the meeting if there's a quorum. Thanks, -ian -- Ian Murdock 317-863-2590 http://ianmurdock.com/ "Don't look back--something might be gaining on you." --Satchel Paige From mats.d.wichmann at intel.com Mon Nov 27 13:20:21 2006 From: mats.d.wichmann at intel.com (Wichmann, Mats D) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] LSB Steering Committee conference call (Wednesday, November 29, 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST) Message-ID: <3F62CBEE02D6404E98C65934617EB582012CB653@fmsmsx414.amr.corp.intel.com> >The broad goal is to blur the distinction between the LSB >"subgroups" (LSB Core, LSB Desktop) and the other FSG workgroups, >and to make the LSB the primary delivery vehicle for the >standards each produces. So, e.g., there would still be an OpenI18n >workgroup that operates more or less autonomously from the LSB, >but its deliverables would be LSB modules designed to integrate >with the larger LSB rather than something delivered separately. That implies (to me) more of a change on the other workgroups than on LSB. At the moment, several workgroups, notably OpenI18N, have worked on material which is outside the (former?) scope of the LSB. This includes both material which has to do with user environment and system setup, rather than just support-for- applications; and "invention", in the sense of having to write specs/code to solve problems where there isn't a reasonable best practice. Both areas are things that when LSB has talked about doing such things, have gotten shot down in flames. Is this the way you're intending it to work - all work products are "eventual candidates for LSB" and thus need to be limited by appropriate scope guidelines, or is there something else on the table? From taggart at carmen.fc.hp.com Mon Nov 27 18:37:13 2006 From: taggart at carmen.fc.hp.com (Matt Taggart) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] LSB Steering Committee conference call (Wednesday, November 29, 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061128023713.6728037F73@carmen.fc.hp.com> "Ian Murdock" writes... > The next LSB Steering Committee conference call is Wednesday at 8am > PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST. The call in details are: Hi lsb-sc, I haven't been as involved with the LSB lately and I no longer have time to participate in lsb-sc. With the recent additions to the SC I think there are more than enough people to look after the LSB, please remove me. Thanks, -- Matt Taggart Open Source & Linux Organization R&D taggart@fc.hp.com Hewlett-Packard From imurdock at imurdock.com Wed Nov 29 03:21:21 2006 From: imurdock at imurdock.com (Ian Murdock) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] LSB Steering Committee conference call (Wednesday, November 29, 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST) In-Reply-To: <3F62CBEE02D6404E98C65934617EB582012CB653@fmsmsx414.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <3F62CBEE02D6404E98C65934617EB582012CB653@fmsmsx414.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: On 11/27/06, Wichmann, Mats D wrote: > >The broad goal is to blur the distinction between the LSB > >"subgroups" (LSB Core, LSB Desktop) and the other FSG workgroups, > >and to make the LSB the primary delivery vehicle for the > >standards each produces. So, e.g., there would still be an OpenI18n > >workgroup that operates more or less autonomously from the LSB, > >but its deliverables would be LSB modules designed to integrate > >with the larger LSB rather than something delivered separately. > > That implies (to me) more of a change on the other workgroups > than on LSB. At the moment, several workgroups, notably OpenI18N, > have worked on material which is outside the (former?) scope of > the LSB. This includes both material which has to do with > user environment and system setup, rather than just support-for- > applications; and "invention", in the sense of having to write > specs/code to solve problems where there isn't a reasonable best > practice. Both areas are things that when LSB has talked > about doing such things, have gotten shot down in flames. > > Is this the way you're intending it to work - all work products > are "eventual candidates for LSB" and thus need to be limited > by appropriate scope guidelines, or is there something else > on the table? That's right, though we don't need to limit the scope of the other workgroups. If it doesn't meet the "do the distros ship it?" and "is the ABI around for the long term?" criteria, it'll stay out of the LSB (though it'll be easy for implementations to support the optional extensions, because they'll have tests in the Distribution Testkit etc.), but I'd like everything to be ready made to slot into the LSB if and when the distros move to adopt something. We'll talk more about this during the call today. -ian -- Ian Murdock 317-863-2590 http://ianmurdock.com/ "Don't look back--something might be gaining on you." --Satchel Paige From imurdock at imurdock.com Wed Nov 29 07:46:39 2006 From: imurdock at imurdock.com (Ian Murdock) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] LSB Steering Committee conference call (Wednesday, November 29, 8am PDT/11am EDT/5pm CEST) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/27/06, Ian Murdock wrote: > I'll be sending out proposed amendments to the charter etc. late tomorrow > for your review, and I'd like to approve them at the meeting if there's a > quorum. I got pulled into other things yesterday and didn't quite get finished with this. You can see my current draft at http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Charter The earlier parts are more fully baked than the later parts. For the later parts, I've tried to at least outline everything that needs to be there, subject to some wordsmithy. We'll go over this during the call in 15 minutes to get feedback and will put this up for discussion/vote by email when I'm finished, which should be sometime later this week. -ian -- Ian Murdock 317-863-2590 http://ianmurdock.com/ "Don't look back--something might be gaining on you." --Satchel Paige From nick at usenix.org Wed Nov 29 11:15:50 2006 From: nick at usenix.org (Nick Stoughton) Date: Thu Jul 12 13:07:54 2007 Subject: [lsb-sc] New charter Message-ID: <1164827750.4852.8.camel@amstaff2.msbit.com> Looking through the old charter in comparison to the new one, there are several items that have been dropped that I believe deserve some coverage in the new. The old charter went to some lengths to define the term of the chair, and the chair's duties. I believe these are necessary requirements for both the LSB chair and the workgroup chairs. How about something like this (derived from the old words): CHAIRS The LSB overall project lead shall be known as the LSB Chair. Eac workgroup shall be led by a chair, known as the Workgroup Chair. The LSB chair is responsible for overall project coordination and for representing the LSB to the FSG and to the community. A Workroup chair is responsible for representing the workgroup to the LSB workgroup as a whole, and to the steering committee. The LSB Chair is responsible for overseeing the production and dissemination of roadmap, budget, media, and collaboration. Both LSB and workgroup chairs have the following responsibilities and duties: * Must conduct a workgroup telephone conference at least once per month * Must conduct a face-to-face workgroup meeting at least once per year In addition, the LSB Chair * Must present a roadmap and budget to the workgroup and FSG board once per year * Shall act as the primary spokesperson for the LSB workgroup * May nominate a project manager, release manager, and workgroup chairs (in the event that a workgroup is unable to elect its own chair) A Workgroup Chair * May act as a spokesperson for the workgroup * Shall be a member of the steering committee The LSB chair is elected by all of the LSB contributors. Workgroup chairs are elected by the contributors to the individual workgroup, but may be appointed by the LSB chair in the event of a new workgroup being formed, or if there is no concensus on a chair from within the workgroup. A chair's term of office is two years; there is no limit on the number of terms. A chair may be removed through a majority vote of no confidence by either the Steering Committee or the Free Standards Group board of directors. Failure to fulfill the duties specified shall be grounds for no confidence. In the event the LSB chair position becomes vacant, an election is to be conducted within 90 days. During the vacancy period, the steering committee shall appoint one of its members as acting LSB chair. In the event that a workgroup chair position becomes vacant, an election is to be conducted within the workgroup within 90 days. During the vacancy period, the LSB chair shall act as workgroup chair. ---- Other thoughts to follow ... -- Nick Stoughton Cell: 510 388 1413 USENIX Standards Liaison Fax: 510 548 5738